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Old 11-17-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Utica, NY
1,912 posts, read 2,530,879 times
Reputation: 3199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
What is it with ignorant trying to make English a Latin language? It is definitely not!
It just evolved to replace many Germanic (old English) words with Latin influenced equivalents. The structure of English is still Germanic. The changes were mere window dressing.

 
Old 11-18-2013, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Utica, NY
1,912 posts, read 2,530,879 times
Reputation: 3199
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldetonyna View Post
Modern English is not a Germanic language but a Pidgin.

Old English, a very cultured and complex language WAS a Germanic language. Old English was stamped out of the face of the earth with the Norman invasion, and the resulting language was a barrage of vulgar Anglosaxon and French devoided of any sophistication and structure. A very simple and powerful language, neither Germanic or Latin, just a very easy to understand patois.
The structure and many of the words (or versions of them) are still intact.

The Lord's Prayer
(Old English - Anglo-Saxon)

Fder ure u e eart on heofonum;
Si in nama gehalgod
to becume in rice
gewure in willa
on eoran swa swa on heofonum.
urne gedghwamlican hlaf syle us todg
and forgyf us ure gyltas
swa swa we forgyfa urum gyltendum
and ne geld u us on costnunge
ac alys us of yfele solice
(note: the old english "" is pronounced "th")

Translation of Old English Text
Father our thou that art in heavens
be thy name hallowed
come thy kingdom
be-done thy will
on earth as in heavens
our daily bread give us today
and forgive us our sins
as we forgive those-who-have-sinned-against-us
and not lead thou us into temptation
but deliver us from evil. truly

English is in no way a Latin languqge.
 
Old 11-18-2013, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Utica, NY
1,912 posts, read 2,530,879 times
Reputation: 3199
If the Normans "wiped out" our beautiful Saxon language, then why was it still 65-70% intact in post-Norman England and beyond?

The Lord's Prayer
in Middle English

The Lourdes Preyere

Oure fadir that art in heuenes,
halewid be thi name;
thi kyngdoom come to;
be thi wille don, in erthe as in heuene.
Yyue to vs this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce,
and foryyue to vs oure dettis, as we foryyuen to oure dettouris;
and lede vs not in to temptacioun, but delyuere vs fro yuel. Amen.
 
Old 11-18-2013, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Utica, NY
1,912 posts, read 2,530,879 times
Reputation: 3199
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldetonyna View Post
I studied Old English, a entirely different language related to Old Norse, Old German.
No way to read it without lenghtly and detailed interpretation.
On the other hand, I can read 12th Century French, Spanish and Catalan without much help because those languages remained intact.
You are indeed selecting texts.
No way that 65-70 % remained intact for the simple reason that cultured Anglosaxon was a product of Monasteries, Monks, the Church, not the language of commoners.
Normans put an end to that, Latin and French became official.
You can't have studied it very hard then, or maybe you should ask your school for a refund.

English is not a Romance language. I would question the sanity of anyone who claims that it is just because of a few borrowed words that the Normans introduced.
 
Old 11-18-2013, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Stockholm
993 posts, read 1,579,737 times
Reputation: 598
Due to Latin/Romance influences on the mainland Scandinavian language, I can't read 12th century Norse either. The only language that remains almost intact with Old Norse is Icelandic and to some extent Faroese.

The 3 others, that is Swedish, Danish and Norwegian, has went through way too many Latin/Romance influences, and are completely different from Old Norse. We are still very much Germanic though, despite the Latin/Romance influences.
 
Old 11-18-2013, 10:40 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 8,482,513 times
Reputation: 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldetonyna View Post
Modern English is not a Germanic language but a Pidgin.

Old English, a very cultured and complex language WAS a Germanic language. Old English was stamped out of the face of the earth with the Norman invasion, and the resulting language was a barrage of vulgar Anglosaxon and French devoided of any sophistication and structure. A very simple and powerful language, neither Germanic or Latin, just a very easy to understand patois.
Every other European language has borrowed words from another language, English is no exception. Did you really study Old English or the evolution of the English language? I speak both English and French perfectly, and I can say that English remained Germanic by excellence. [/quote]
 
Old 11-19-2013, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Outer Space
1,524 posts, read 3,446,624 times
Reputation: 1796
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxonwold View Post
Every other European language has borrowed words from another language, English is no exception. Did you really study Old English or the evolution of the English language? I speak both English and French perfectly, and I can say that English remained Germanic by excellence.
I think this person is referring (not very clearly) to the Middle English Creole Hypothesis. I had not heard of it and next to nothing comes up when you google it, just a few academic articles behind paywalls that seem to discredit it and a bunch of navelgazing on other forums.
 
Old 11-19-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Stockholm
993 posts, read 1,579,737 times
Reputation: 598
If English can be argued to be a Latin language and not Germanic, the I guess you could also say that Romanian is a Slavic language and not Latin just because of Slavic influences. English is West Germanic, and it's not common that West Germanic languages are intelligible with each others so don't expect it to be extremely similar to the other ones, it is only the North Germanic languages that are mutually intelligible. English sentences has a very similar structure and order of words as the Scandinavian (Germanic) languages, this structure is not found in any Latin language. This made English very easy for me as a Swede to learn, that there was no new significant structure of words to get used to.

Also keep in mind that Norman French had and has already lots of Germanic influences itself.

Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 11-19-2013 at 01:02 AM..
 
Old 11-19-2013, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Outer Space
1,524 posts, read 3,446,624 times
Reputation: 1796
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldetonyna View Post
English is a pidgin, neither Germanic or Latin. English is not West Germanic, c'mon..The structure? What structure? English is a pidgin with no structure, no grammar, no nothing...that's why English became so important. English is like Linux.
Keep digging that hole.

What evidence is there that Modern English has no remaining Germanic structure? Just that we simply cannot read Old English as Modern English speakers with no formal training? I assure you Modern Germans are equally as lost with Old German without guideposts. Take for example a bit from The Lay of Hildebrand:

Quote:
Ik gıhorta dat ſeggen
dat ſih urhettun non muotın
hıltıbrant entı hadubrant untar herıun tuem
ſunu fatarungo ıro ſaro rıhtun
garutun ſe ıro gudhamun gurtun ſih ıro ſuert ana
helıdoſ ubar rınga do ſie to dero hıltu rıtun
hıltıbrant gımahalta herıbranteſ ſunu her uuaſ heroro man
feraheſ frotoro her fragen gıſtuont
fohem uuortum ƿer ſin fater ƿarı
fıreo ın folche
eddo ƿelıhheſ cnuoſleſ du ſiſ
ıbu du mı enan ſageſ ık mı de odre uuet
chınd ın chunıncrıche chud ıſt mın al ırmındeot
hadubrant gımahalta hıltıbranteſ ſunu
dat ſagetun mı uſere lıutı
Do we claim now German as not being a Germanic language simply because the modern version bears little resemblance to that?

The evidence for Modern English being a Germanic language is clear.

http://carolinagsalamanca.webs.com/r...c_language.pdf
 
Old 11-19-2013, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Stockholm
993 posts, read 1,579,737 times
Reputation: 598
By using these logics, modern Swedish and Norwegian would not be Germanic either either since we can't read Old Norse.
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