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To equate the word "Germanic" with the country of Germany (which is not even it's native name) is just plain stupid and also extremely ignorant. A country does not have to be like Germany in order to be Germanic. For example, the Scandinavian countries are just as Germanic as Germany is, cause they speak Germanic languages. As for the languages that are the closest to Proto-Germanic, that is probably the Scandinavian languages, in particular Icelandic.
In Swedish and the other Scandinavian languages we don't have this confusion since we have seperate words for Germany and Germanic.
In Swedish, and the other Scandinavian languages:
Germanic = Germansk
Germany = Tyskland
So in that way, we don't have the misconception here that Germanic would have to have something specifically to do with the country of Germany (Deutschland), since we named the country something else.
Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium (Flanders), Ireland and the UK are all equally Germanic countries and are all in Europe. Of course they are all unique since they are different countries so don't assume that they would all have to be the same just cause they are in the same group.
English is the most widely spoken Germanic language in the world and because it is Germanic it's easy to learn for people who speaks other Germanic languages. The ancestor of English is Old English, which was also Germanic. Some people in Wales, Scotland and Ireland speaks Celtic languages, but lives in a mainly Germanic culture.
Good one there but this is actually Atlantic Europe.
Atlantic Europe is a geographical and anthropological term for the western portion of Europe which borders the Atlantic Ocean. The term may refer to the idea of Atlantic Europe as a cultural unit and/or as an biogeographical region.
It comprises the British Isles (UK and Ireland), Iceland, Belgium, the Netherlands, the central and northern regions of Portugal (sometimes Portugal as a whole is referenced), northwestern and northern Spain, the western portion of France and Scandinavia and northern Germany.
All those regions were part of a single culture in which Ireland was extremelly important. The ball beaker and megalithic culture 4.500 years ago that comprised Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Italy and British Isles. Their haplogroup was I. So those were the first settlers of Ireland, Spain, France, Northern Italy and Belgium.
It was a Atlantic Europe. Later, Rib replaced them.
All those regions were part of a single culture in which Ireland was extremelly important. The ball beaker and megalithic culture 4.500 years ago that comprised Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Italy and British Isles. Their haplogroup was I. So those were the first settlers of Ireland, Spain, France, Northern Italy and Belgium.
It was a Atlantic Europe. Later, Rib replaced them.
To equate the word "Germanic" with the country of Germany (which is not even it's native name) is just plain stupid and also extremely ignorant. A country does not have to be like Germany in order to be Germanic. For example, the Scandinavian countries are just as Germanic as Germany is, cause they speak Germanic languages. As for the languages that are the closest to Proto-Germanic, that is probably the Scandinavian languages, in particular Icelandic.
In Swedish and the other Scandinavian languages we don't have this confusion since we have seperate words for Germany and Germanic.
In Swedish, and the other Scandinavian languages:
Germanic = Germansk
Germany = Tyskland
So in that way, we don't have the misconception here that Germanic would have to have something specifically to do with the country of Germany (Deutschland), since we named the country something else.
Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium (Flanders), Ireland and the UK are all equally Germanic countries and are all in Europe. Of course they are all unique since they are different countries so don't assume that they would all have to be the same just cause they are in the same group.
English is the most widely spoken Germanic language in the world and because it is Germanic it's easy to learn for people who speaks other Germanic languages. The ancestor of English is Old English, which was also Germanic. Some people in Wales, Scotland and Ireland speaks Celtic languages, but lives in a mainly Germanic culture.
This was a very well analysed statement. It would therefore most likely erase confusion. Many people confuse the term Germanic or Teutonic with Germany which completely wrong. Germany is just one of the Germanic speaking countries. [/quote]
This was a very well analysed statement. It would therefore most likely erase confusion. Many people confuse the term Germanic or Teutonic with Germany which completely wrong. Germany is just one of the Germanic speaking countries.
It was a huge mistake to name the country as Germany in English. It's like naming Russia "Slavia" and then people would confuse and associate the term Slavic with just one country. In many languages the local name for Deutschland and the name for Germanic is seperate. For example, in Spanish, Germany is called Alemania, and Germanic is called "Germanico".
German is like you said just one Germanic language, and it's not even the most widely spoken one. English is Germanic and has hundreds of thousends of more native speakers than German has, so if there is one language that the word Germanic should be associated with based on number of speakers and cultural influence, it's English.
Differences between French and British cultures was reflected in the way they went about colonization of various lands. The French were more lenient towards non-Europeans and many times intermingled with natives of other continents just like their Latin counterparts the Portuguese and Spaniards as Ancient Romans did, cooperating with the local population in order to rule better and have somewhat "healthier" relationship with their subject. While the British a Germanic people(English-dominated) were much more tenacious and assertive, settled in greater numbers and were more charge. This assertive characteristic probably passed on from the terrible Saxon invaders who came to Britain in the Middle Ages. In the colonization of Africa, British fully believed that "Africans were essentially different from Europeans and would stay that way". This point of view invited racism which suggested that" Africans were not just different but also inferior to Europeans".
The French in comparison, were prepared to treat Africans, but only they spoke the French language properly and adopted values of the French culture. If they reached a certain level of education, they could become French citizen.
Even in North America, the Spanish, French were much lenient towards the Native Indians tribes, many intermarried, but the British kept more to themselves and were less lenient and at the end they ended getting the whole land. [/quote]
You should take a look at the magnificent Megalithic Culture in Ireland, not R1b. This culture was replaced by the beaker culture, but preserving somehow their worship sites....later, all that culture was abandoned.
To equate the word "Germanic" with the country of Germany (which is not even it's native name) is just plain stupid and also extremely ignorant. A country does not have to be like Germany in order to be Germanic. For example, the Scandinavian countries are just as Germanic as Germany is, cause they speak Germanic languages. As for the languages that are the closest to Proto-Germanic, that is probably the Scandinavian languages, in particular Icelandic.
In Swedish and the other Scandinavian languages we don't have this confusion since we have seperate words for Germany and Germanic.
In Swedish, and the other Scandinavian languages:
Germanic = Germansk
Germany = Tyskland
So in that way, we don't have the misconception here that Germanic would have to have something specifically to do with the country of Germany (Deutschland), since we named the country something else.
Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium (Flanders), Ireland and the UK are all equally Germanic countries and are all in Europe. Of course they are all unique since they are different countries so don't assume that they would all have to be the same just cause they are in the same group.
English is the most widely spoken Germanic language in the world and because it is Germanic it's easy to learn for people who speaks other Germanic languages. The ancestor of English is Old English, which was also Germanic. Some people in Wales, Scotland and Ireland speaks Celtic languages, but lives in a mainly Germanic culture.
This is very true, this is something I've try to explain many times on this board. It seems many British and people from other English-speaking cultures reject the label "Germanic" because they feel ot would mean that they are like Germans... For some reasons it seems Germany has sort of negative image among the Anglosphone world and many people don't like at all to realise that there country is part of the wide family of the Germanic countries, that doesn't focus around Germany at all.
The Germanic world always used to focus around the areas of the north sea (mare Germanicum): Denmark, Norway, England, Netherlands, parts of northern Germany...
Most of Germany has never been in the core, nor the land of origin of germanic cultures and even less the reference of "Germanicness". It has just been one Germanic countries among many others.
This confusion still exist only in English language I think, since "Germany" has been shoosen as the name for the country that other languages call "Alemania", "Alemagne", "Deutshland", etc...
It seems to be a certain anti-German sentiment remaining in the UK after the great wars even though so many years has passed. This type of anti-German sentiment is also found in other countries in Europe that was affected by the great wars like France, Poland, the Netherlands and even Denmark and Norway.
My country Sweden was officially never involved in any of the 2 great wars, and also happens to be probably one of the most pro-German countries in Europe. People here has a rather positive view of Germany, and German tourists has decribed Sweden as very German-friendly. 30% of Swedes can speak the German language fluently. The WWII nazi stereotype is pretty much non-existent here. Sweden was controversially even very pro-German during the war, mostly because the Soviet threat was considered as much bigger.
It's still sad how so many English speaking people in the world can be so ignorant that they reject the label Germanic just because of outdated and ignorant views of a country called "Germany" in English, even though English is a Germanic language, specifically West Germanic, of the Anglo-Frisian group. It can also have to do with common patriotism, that they dont want to be associated with a country that is not the UK. But in other languages where Germany has a different name the label Germanic is not associated with any specific country.
In my town in southern Sweden there is a pre-viking age runestone written in Proto-Norse, the northern dialect of Proto-Germanic. And Proto-Germanic is the common ancestor of all Germanic languages, including English. Now if only the deluded people out there could get that into their thick skulls.
One thing I find ironic is that more people in England are probably more okay with the label Anglo-Saxon, wonder if they know that both the Angles and the Saxons came from specifically northern Germany.
As for France, I don't believe there is any significant similarity between the Germanic UK and the Romance France. France also borders the Germanic countries Germany and the Netherlands, and those Germanic countries are not similar to France either.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 11-16-2013 at 11:58 AM..
This is very true, this is something I've try to explain many times on this board. It seems many British and people from other English-speaking cultures reject the label "Germanic" because they feel ot would mean that they are like Germans... For some reasons it seems Germany has sort of negative image among the Anglosphone world and many people don't like at all to realise that there country is part of the wide family of the Germanic countries, that doesn't focus around Germany at all.
The Germanic world always used to focus around the areas of the north sea (mare Germanicum): Denmark, Norway, England, Netherlands, parts of northern Germany...
Most of Germany has never been in the core, nor the land of origin of germanic cultures and even less the reference of "Germanicness". It has just been one Germanic countries among many others.
This confusion still exist only in English language I think, since "Germany" has been shoosen as the name for the country that other languages call "Alemania", "Alemagne", "Deutshland", etc...
But..allow me to disgress...I think that the UK is not Germanic... Yes, English could be considered a Germanic language, but...English is not the cultured language of the UK, but French.
English, modern English, is not the cultured Anglosaxon language spoken before the arrival of William the Conqueror in 1066, but a barrage, a pidgin of Anglosaxon and French. Plus, all the cultured elite in Britain spoke Latin until quite recently.
The reason why England speaks English is due to "geopolitics". The official language of England could not be the same that the official language of the country they were battling with.
And yes, despite the efforts of Pangermanists, or the uncouth drivels of non-European racists, Britain is a Western european country not related with "Central" Europe at all, not "cousins" as ol' Addie said at all.
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Thanks mate. I appreciate your input.