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Old 10-09-2018, 10:48 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OZpharmer View Post
Just wondering, how much have Estonia and Vladivostok changed since the last comment was posted?
Vlad got a fancy new bridge to nowhere, because the Czar waved a magic wand at a map, and said "here will be a bridge!" There's been more economic development happening in the region, as Russia now exports energy and other resources to an ever-industrializing northern China.

Estonia? IDK. I think they've been through a big easy-loan bubble in connection with the EU, that burst, and has lived to tell the tale. Life plods onward. Connections with Finland have helped the economy, in some respects. It's a good question. Worth reviving a silly, 6-year-old thread for. We'll see what other posters contribute.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:34 AM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,787 posts, read 986,051 times
Reputation: 2808
Not many people in the world have been to both lately and the chances of finding them here are slim I would imagine. Estonia has been steadily growing its economy since 2012, Russia has not. Your average wage in Estonia would be about $1,500 lately, or about 3 times that of Vladisvostok.

Despite the misinformed poster above me, Vladivostok is not heavily involved or reliant on energy or other resource extraction. Its economy relies mostly on its fishing port, importing goods from Asia and navy base. Maybe the navy will expand its presence some as Putin diverts more of the budget towards the military but it has a long ways to go to catch up to 30 years ago.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: SE Estonia
2,589 posts, read 1,406,026 times
Reputation: 905
Compared to 6 years ago even a bigger number of Estonians work in Finland, but it helps livelihood of only those who work and live in Finland because those who live in Finland or elsewhere live there and not here. Those Estonians who live here have in general no benefit from it. Moving abroad has led to a decrease in the number of population and the labor force, this has caused a deepening of the problems. Who will pay a pensions in future, for those who are today employees if there will be less and less employees in the future? The life in rural areas, areas far from capital is deteriorating. The stories about "Estonia's success" are generally nonsense. I see in this forum is even a special thread about it. Well, in fact yeah those Estonian success stories are disseminated by the right-wing circles of Estonia. The right wingers have been in power here for a long time, have played first fiddle and so they are responsible for everything. So it's no wonder that they are trying to show the situation much more beautiful than it in really is as they want to justify their own actions. Do you want some examples? Here you are- eg in the meantime, eg Lithuania has become wealthier than Estonia. Of course, our right wing propagandists do not speak, do not write any word about it. Take a critical look at our right wingers' stories.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:18 PM
 
614 posts, read 302,871 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhityk View Post
Compared to 6 years ago even a bigger number of Estonians work in Finland, but it helps livelihood of only those who work and live in Finland because those who live in Finland or elsewhere live there and not here. Those Estonians who live here have in general no benefit from it. Moving abroad has led to a decrease in the number of population and the labor force, this has caused a deepening of the problems. Who will pay a pensions in future, for those who are today employees if there will be less and less employees in the future? The life in rural areas, areas far from capital is deteriorating. The stories about "Estonia's success" are generally nonsense. I see in this forum is even a special thread about it. Well, in fact yeah those Estonian success stories are disseminated by the right-wing circles of Estonia. The right wingers have been in power here for a long time, have played first fiddle and so they are responsible for everything. So it's no wonder that they are trying to show the situation much more beautiful than it in really is as they want to justify their own actions. Do you want some examples? Here you are- eg in the meantime, eg Lithuania has become wealthier than Estonia. Of course, our right wing propagandists do not speak, do not write any word about it. Take a critical look at our right wingers' stories.
How did you manage to write so much crap? Except for the countryside deteriorating (happening also everywhere else), everything else is pure manure.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:22 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,787 posts, read 986,051 times
Reputation: 2808
Not hard to find old Communists who miss the "good old days".
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Old 10-09-2018, 05:15 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Not many people in the world have been to both lately and the chances of finding them here are slim I would imagine. Estonia has been steadily growing its economy since 2012, Russia has not. Your average wage in Estonia would be about $1,500 lately, or about 3 times that of Vladisvostok.

Despite the misinformed poster above me, Vladivostok is not heavily involved or reliant on energy or other resource extraction. Its economy relies mostly on its fishing port, importing goods from Asia and navy base. Maybe the navy will expand its presence some as Putin diverts more of the budget towards the military but it has a long ways to go to catch up to 30 years ago.
Russia is using its border areas with China to export energy and other resources and products. It's been pursuing energy development, improving infrastructure, and is planning industrialization (supported by aforementioned energy development) in a number of border regions in its Asian sector. Some of this is going toward improving the local QOL as well. It's planning to develop Vlad's capacity as a port for exporting to its Pacific neighbors and beyond. Producers in China's northeast region also are looking to use Vladivostok as an alternative port for export items, due to greater proximity than to China's main ports, like Shanghai.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-09-2018 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:01 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,787 posts, read 986,051 times
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Manchuria uses Dalian, (Port Arthur) for its exports, not Shanghai and not Vladivostok. As for energy, perhaps you are thinking of coal exports to Nakhodka or oil to Kozmino.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,906 posts, read 2,190,782 times
Reputation: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Vlad got a fancy new bridge to nowhere, because the Czar waved a magic wand at a map, and said "here will be a bridge!" There's been more economic development happening in the region, as Russia now exports energy and other resources to an ever-industrializing northern China.

Estonia? IDK. I think they've been through a big easy-loan bubble in connection with the EU, that burst, and has lived to tell the tale. Life plods onward. Connections with Finland have helped the economy, in some respects. It's a good question. Worth reviving a silly, 6-year-old thread for. We'll see what other posters contribute.
Vladivostok actually got two new bridges.

The first one crosses the bay, which shortened commutes between the northern and southern half of the city by a significant margin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolotoy_Bridge

The second bridge connects Vladivostok with Russky Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russky_Bridge

And this bridge could be considered as a bridge to no where since the island is extremely underdeveloped and underused, but it is pretty large with an area of 976 km2 (377 sq mi), which means it has a lot of opportunity for development, especially since Vladivostok is already pretty constrained in buildable land area.

Some things that were built on the island are the Far Eastern Federal University and the Primorsky Aquarium. Also when looking at google maps you can already see new residential developments
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0023.../data=!3m1!1e3

And yes this bridge was very costly and probably not necessary today, but it's perhaps needed in the future, for instance the I-90 floating bridge built over lake Washington in 1940 in Seattle could've been considered also as a costly unnecessary bridge since the eastern side as just rural farmland, but today Bellevue is a bustling tech hub.

Bellevue
1940: 1,177
1960: 12,809
1980: 73,903
2000: 109,569
2017: 144,444

You are supposed to build for the future, not the present.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:06 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Manchuria uses Dalian, (Port Arthur) for its exports, not Shanghai and not Vladivostok. As for energy, perhaps you are thinking of coal exports to Nakhodka or oil to Kozmino.
Reports are saying that some businesses in Manchuria are looking to to use Vlad as a port, because it's cheaper for them. A gas pipeline along the Chinese border has been on the drawing board for a few years, and now is in the middle of the construction stage. South Korea is also hoping to get in on Russian gas exports. Japan pledged a couple of years ago, to invest in infrastructure improvements in Vladivostok. Russia's been working hard to attract foreign investment to the area, as well as to increase its influence via energy exports. Far Eastern development has been a priority of Putin's since before the first Eastern Economic Forum. There's scads of info on these developments, on the internet.

Vlad has already grown and developed significantly, since I was there in the early 90's, when it was run-down, chronically traffic-jammed on the old bridge, and subject to annual spring floods.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-10-2018 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:12 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,151 posts, read 70,049,185 times
Reputation: 75968
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Vladivostok actually got two new bridges.

The first one crosses the bay, which shortened commutes between the northern and southern half of the city by a significant margin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolotoy_Bridge

The second bridge connects Vladivostok with Russky Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russky_Bridge

And this bridge could be considered as a bridge to no where since the island is extremely underdeveloped and underused, but it is pretty large with an area of 976 km2 (377 sq mi), which means it has a lot of opportunity for development, especially since Vladivostok is already pretty constrained in buildable land area.

Some things that were built on the island are the Far Eastern Federal University and the Primorsky Aquarium. Also when looking at google maps you can already see new residential developments
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0023.../data=!3m1!1e3

And yes this bridge was very costly and probably not necessary today, but it's perhaps needed in the future, for instance the I-90 floating bridge built over lake Washington in 1940 in Seattle could've been considered also as a costly unnecessary bridge since the eastern side as just rural farmland, but today Bellevue is a bustling tech hub.

Bellevue
1940: 1,177
1960: 12,809
1980: 73,903
2000: 109,569
2017: 144,444

You are supposed to build for the future, not the present.
Thanks, grega. I didn't know the floating bridge was built in the 40's. Clearly, regional authorities were planning for the future. And of course, it's cheaper and less disruptive to build a bridge before development takes off, vs. afterwards. It's also one way of directing development in a certain direction. The cynical Western press reported the Russkii Island bridge project as coming into being in response to the Eastern Economic Forum, that was held on the island, without going into any depth about future development in the area, and so forth.
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