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Interesting that many saw the plane destroyed and bodies falling out of the sky as a result of a criminal act. Those are described in law as 'witnesses'. We'll see how many turn up when evidence is raised for noting where the launcher was and who specifically fired the missile. I have to think right now this minute there's a lockdown at Sukhodolsk or Pervomaiske. It is there that the launcher parked itself and then supposedly moved on. Problem is 'witnesses' will be as hard to find as pink polar bears in that neck of the woods. They'll be so intimidated that it would put Mr. Heydrich's methods to shame. It will be a miracle if this reprehensible act will be in a court of law someday.
As I mentioned in my post above; the Donbass area is a densely populated area, there is not a single remote and very rural area in the whole place.
He's ignorant K350, 99% of Americans are completely ignorant of Russia except for what media tells them. The Donbass is much like parts of Pennsylvania or Ohio.
Selena, Selena. It's clear to all the world (except for perhaps your portion of it) that the OSCE observers were only allowed to remain at part of the crash site (which covers at least nine square miles) for 75 minutes, and that shots were fired by a boozed-up "rebel" "commander" when some of these observers attempted to examine part of the area which the "rebels" evidently considered off-limits. The observers returned to their base and expressed their outrage and frustration at such highly unprofessional - and inhumane - behavior by the "rebels", aka terrorists.
Meanwhile, the pitiful bodies lie where they fell, covered only by whatever spare blankets or pieces of other cloth the local residents, extremely poor themselves, were able to find. Looting is going on - watches, cell phones, of course money, passports, credit cards, jewelry - most likely looting done by the "rebels" rather than locals, who are poor but who do have their pride. Knowledge of this criminal outrage and abuse of the dead has to add to the heartbreak of the surviving families. Shameful.
BTW, Torez is the location of a notorious orphanage/mental institution, to which small abandoned children with Down syndrome and other special needs were routinely sent at the age of four or so. Residents of this drafty, shabby, poorly funded institution ranged in age from four to about 35, and people with physical disabilities but typical intellect were also sent here, often to be kept in bed 24/7. Many died, of sheer neglect and lack of love. A few - a precious few, and they are precious - were adopted by American families and are thriving, now that they're receiving the medical attention, good nutrition, therapies, and most of all love that were all so sorely lacking in this place.
Places like Torez Institute/Orphanage are a carry-over of the old Stalinist notion that if people are of no use to the state, they have no value whatsoever. There are still many, many places like the Torez Institution throughout Russia, where Americans, Irish citizens, and members of other nationalities have been banned from adopting and few NGOs are allowed to visit.
Thankfully, a series of newspaper articles about the situation at Torez led to the transfer of many of its residents to better facilities, but the plight of many such children and adults throughout Russia and countries once part of the former Soviet Union remains dire, and little-known in the west. Prior to the current conflict, Ukraine did plan to bring an end to the orphanage system in favor of foster homes, but little has been said about plans for places which house abandoned, legally orphaned children and adults with special needs. At present, Americans cannot adopt children from Eastern Ukraine (where the majority of the orphanages are located) because of safety concerns, but orphanages in the peaceful western portion of Ukraine are still open to adoption by Americans.
Crimea now falls under Russian rules, so Crimean orphans, who retain legal Ukrainian citizenship, are also trapped, in more ways than one. Sad - many had American families who were in the process of adopting them, just as happened in Russia last year.
I hope that when peace and justice return to Ukraine, peace and justice will also come to places like the Torez Institution, not just in Ukraine, but throughout eastern Europe and Russia.
Ler's start from the beginning: yesterday morning became clear that Kiev began to slow down the arrival of observers from the OSCE, they were delayed by at least 40 minutes and no one here did not expect anymore that they will come. Nevertheless, finally they arrived here and started to work, though Ukrainian authorities reported that observers were not even admitted to the site of accident. Area of debris expansion really huge, because (open Ukrainian map now) connection with the plane disappeared above Poltava region, and it began to fall over about Dnepropetrovsk-if you have taken the map, then you know that this area is not even controlled by the rebels, it is Ukrainian. I hope you know that the de-energized Boeing can plan a couple of hundred kilometers before the fall, and it was de-energized, judging from when the connection was lost, just a few hundred kilometers from the crash site.
When it dropped, it was clear that Ukraine and USA will accuse or us, or Russia. Yeah, we and the Russians constantly shoot down civilian planes, not Ukraine (Sarcasm. I'll give you a hint: 2001, the Russian plane was shot Ukrainian militarians, which still telling that they are not guilty despite it proved an international commission) immediately began accusations against us, but ... As I said, first the rebels do not have such technology that has been confirmed by the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office. The video, which is considered the alleged evidence that rebels have Buk was made in completely different city, besides being under the control of the Ukrainian army. Speaking of Buk, in Ukrainian media are photos of Buk which considered to be Russian, but serial number, which is very clearly visible in the photo belongs to Ukrainian Book- one of those who were sent to the ATO area, there is evidence. What can you say about it? Anymore "evidences" that we hit it? No? So we already have our and Russian govenment' words against Kiev and USA government' words. Interenting situation.
Next. Visit of observers from the OSCE (incidentally by strange coincidence they were in Lugansk, just after their arrival and report that the shooting conducted only at civilians, fell this plane). So, first of all observers were allowed wherever they feel the need to get. Moreover, local residents to which rooftops and gardens fell dead passenger of that plane did not touch their bodies not because residents are too poor or were drinking vodka at that moment (you've got to get rid of stereotypes regarding the standard of living of the people here), but because everyone, even children, know that it is forbidden to touch bodies until experts will inspect them. Also OSCE experts noted that personal belongings are in the area of the crash site of the aircraft, so nobody stole them, leave these hints.
I'm not going to comment your words about orphanages and sick children, I would have understood if children were sick only here, but they are sick all over the world and this is a disaster, not a cause for speculation.
Speaking of Crimea. I do not know who told you that people there are suffering, there live mostly Russian and they were happy to return to their homeland, Russia. Judging by photos from there, now they have even higher standats of life than in Ukraine. Those who did not want to remain in Crimea left it, now they are living in a few sanatoriums (those who don't have where to go) and strave, because Ukrainian government did not find them alternative housing, money and didn't transfer them to another job in Ukraine. Well, also Governt is not interested in those people anymore. "Mavr sdelal svoe delo, mavr mozhet uhodit'" as we say here (Moor has done his work, the Moor can go).
Peace and justice in Ukraine will return only when so called Government will answer for armed coup and the outbreak of war, government in Kiev which is just as legitimate as the Noworossia. We all hope that Ukrainian Nazis will suffer the same punishment as the Nazis from Germany. Yes, we feel sorry for Ukrainian soldiers who come under threat of prison to kill us, but we can not forgive this ever.
Finally I will repeat that you've got to get rid of the stereotypes about the inhabitants of Russia and Novorossia as of mentally retarded people for whom Putin is above all. It is not true. And our region doesn't exists only on donations of Kiev, we have developed industry, excellent education, good wages and living standards. We know how to read, write and work with the information and draw conclusions from it. You should not consider us stupid "vatniki", we are tired of violent Ukrainianization, looting and sale of our factories abroad and armed coups every 10 years. Would you like to live in such conditions? I do not think so.You can not reply this question here, but be honest with yourself
Don't put words in my mouth, thank you. I'm not talking about past incidents. I'm talking about what happened now. It's no secret that some rebels soldiers like to hit the bottle. Ask Selena822.
In militia forbidden to drink, if this plane was hit with vodka it was made not by rebels. If people from militia caught drunk they will suffer severe punishment
I do not believe that in Donetsk and Lugansk have the ability to hack bank cards. But I'm not surprised that the Western media is write. They have long been written that a missile launched by Putin. Now they will be writing much more stupid.
We can do it, but OSCE inspectors admitted that cards, passpots etc were there.
Ler's start from the beginning: yesterday morning became clear that Kiev began to slow down the arrival of observers from the OSCE, they were delayed by at least 40 minutes and no one here did not expect anymore that they will come. Nevertheless, finally they arrived here and started to work, though Ukrainian authorities reported that observers were not even admitted to the site of accident. Area of debris expansion really huge, because (open Ukrainian map now) connection with the plane disappeared above Poltava region, and it began to fall over about Dnepropetrovsk-if you have taken the map, then you know that this area is not even controlled by the rebels, it is Ukrainian. I hope you know that the de-energized Boeing can plan a couple of hundred kilometers before the fall, and it was de-energized, judging from when the connection was lost, just a few hundred kilometers from the crash site.
When it dropped, it was clear that Ukraine and USA will accuse or us, or Russia. Yeah, we and the Russians constantly shoot down civilian planes, not Ukraine (Sarcasm. I'll give you a hint: 2001, the Russian plane was shot Ukrainian militarians, which still telling that they are not guilty despite it proved an international commission) immediately began accusations against us, but ... As I said, first the rebels do not have such technology that has been confirmed by the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office. The video, which is considered the alleged evidence that rebels have Buk was made in completely different city, besides being under the control of the Ukrainian army. Speaking of Buk, in Ukrainian media are photos of Buk which considered to be Russian, but serial number, which is very clearly visible in the photo belongs to Ukrainian Book- one of those who were sent to the ATO area, there is evidence. What can you say about it? Anymore "evidences" that we hit it? No? So we already have our and Russian govenment' words against Kiev and USA government' words. Interenting situation.
Next. Visit of observers from the OSCE (incidentally by strange coincidence they were in Lugansk, just after their arrival and report that the shooting conducted only at civilians, fell this plane). So, first of all observers were allowed wherever they feel the need to get. Moreover, local residents to which rooftops and gardens fell dead passenger of that plane did not touch their bodies not because residents are too poor or were drinking vodka at that moment (you've got to get rid of stereotypes regarding the standard of living of the people here), but because everyone, even children, know that it is forbidden to touch bodies until experts will inspect them. Also OSCE experts noted that personal belongings are in the area of the crash site of the aircraft, so nobody stole them, leave these hints.
I'm not going to comment your words about orphanages and sick children, I would have understood if children were sick only here, but they are sick all over the world and this is a disaster, not a cause for speculation.
Speaking of Crimea. I do not know who told you that people there are suffering, there live mostly Russian and they were happy to return to their homeland, Russia. Judging by photos from there, now they have even higher standats of life than in Ukraine. Those who did not want to remain in Crimea left it, now they are living in a few sanatoriums (those who don't have where to go) and strave, because Ukrainian government did not find them alternative housing, money and didn't transfer them to another job in Ukraine. Well, also Governt is not interested in those people anymore. "Mavr sdelal svoe delo, mavr mozhet uhodit'" as we say here (Moor has done his work, the Moor can go).
Peace and justice in Ukraine will return only when so called Government will answer for armed coup and the outbreak of war, government in Kiev which is just as legitimate as the Noworossia. We all hope that Ukrainian Nazis will suffer the same punishment as the Nazis from Germany. Yes, we feel sorry for Ukrainian soldiers who come under threat of prison to kill us, but we can not forgive this ever.
Finally I will repeat that you've got to get rid of the stereotypes about the inhabitants of Russia and Novorossia as of mentally retarded people for whom Putin is above all. It is not true. And our region doesn't exists only on donations of Kiev, we have developed industry, excellent education, good wages and living standards. We know how to read, write and work with the information and draw conclusions from it. You should not consider us stupid "vatniki", we are tired of violent Ukrainianization, looting and sale of our factories abroad and armed coups every 10 years. Would you like to live in such conditions? I do not think so.You can not reply this question here, but be honest with yourself
that you Vladimir???...Vlaaaaaad-deeeeee......you trying to trick us?
If eastern Ukraine is so well-off, why does it include the majority of orphanages and orphans in Ukraine, most of whose parents have sadly placed their children in such places because they cannot afford to feed and care for them, especially those children who have special needs?
Uh, because Eastern Ukraine ( as relatively wealthy as it is) was still ruled by the system of oligarchy, haven't you heard of it? In Russia this system that transferred the wealth of the nation in few hands has been established with the help of American government, and about the time when it happened, when a lot of parents "couldn't afford to feed" their children any longer because of this magic switch, that's when compassionate Americans started coming in droves to pick up those abandoned children.
Strange situation if you ask me, when a country ( the US that is) is helping with one hand and destroying with the other.
Not that I am a big specialist on post-Soviet Ukraine, but from what I gather, with the involvement of American Agency for International Development and all, and the very similar outcome involving the creation of oligarchy makes me think that things in Ukraine in post-Soviet times in this respect were not all that different from Russia. These recent news make me think even more that that's the case ;
"Now the looting can begin. The IMF loan brings new conditions and imposes austerity on the Ukrainian people so that the Ukraine government can gather up the money with which to repay the IMF. The IMF conditions that will be imposed on the struggling Ukraine population will consist of severe reductions in old-age pensions, in government services, in government employment, and in subsidies for basic consumer purchases such as natural gas. Already low living standards will plummet. In addition, Ukrainian public assets and Ukrainian owned private industries will have to be sold off to Western purchasers."
Repeat again, photo of my passport is in my info. What exactly surprised you?
He/she can't believe that you do not regard the American-backed government in Kiev as the best thing that ever happened to Eastern Ukraine, apparently)))) The God-sent gift of salvation you know))))
He/she can't believe that you do not regard the American-backed government in Kiev as the best thing that ever happened to Eastern Ukraine, apparently)))) The God-sent gift of salvation you know))))
Starnge people)) They shouls come and see everything on their own eyes instead of listening to Ukrainian media. I have a feeling that despite all achievements Russia for Western countries is a place where drunken bears with balalaika run through the streets to worship Vladimir Putin.
When I watched news and there were telling about Maydan my thoughts were:"OMG, these people behave like savages, do they really think that it is real democracy and they will go to EU after this?" and now we have to smile them and allow jump and scream nazis slogans here? Nooo! Russia is not perfect country, but at least there are no such circus.
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