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All Western friends say only that Ukrainians need other weapons, and they don't care how many of them will die. And the West is very concerned about Russian money. Which is not surprising. Money. this is the only value of the West. And the lives of some Ukrainians? What are they worth? Zero cents.
Turist, I think what you do not understand about Westerners, especially Americans, is that while money and economy are important, as you say, freedom is more important. Without our freedoms, money would mean very little, and we wouldn't have very much of it anyway. Would you as a Russian simply surrender if you were invaded by a foreign nation? Would you just give up your country in order to avoid casualties? I think not. Remember that the American Revolution was fought by, and America was founded by men who stood up and defeated the world's most powerful military at the time. Freedom is the MOST important thing to a free people. The money that we certainly do worry about, and the higher standard of living that comes with it, is simply a result of our freedom.
Ukraine has decided that they do not want to be a part of Russia, that they want to be part of the EU and be protected by NATO. Why does the Russian mind not understand this? Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union for decades and they have decided that they do not want to go back. I understand their desire to be free of Russia, as I am an American who lives in a state that was once one of the original 13 colonies that declared independence from England, and then defeated England in a war to keep that independence. That is what the Ukrainians are doing now, fighting for their very right to self determination. For their right to exist. I think President Zelensky has much in common with a famous American revolutionary patriot, Patrick Henry, who said "Give me liberty, or give me death."
Last edited by treasurekidd; 03-03-2022 at 05:31 PM..
Turist, I think what you do not understand about Westerners, especially Americans, is that while money and economy are important, as you say, freedom is more important. Without our freedoms, money would mean very little, and we wouldn't have very much of it anyway. Would you as a Russian simply surrender if you were invaded by a foreign nation? Would you just give up your country in order to avoid casualties? I think not. Remember that the American Revolution was fought by, and America was founded by men who stood up and defeated the world's most powerful military at the time. Freedom is the MOST important thing to a free people. The money that we certainly do worry about, and the higher standard of living that comes with it, is simply a result of our freedom.
Ukraine has decided that they do not want to be a part of Russia, that they want to be part of the EU and be protected by NATO. Why does the Russian mind not understand this? Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union for decades and they have decided that they do not want to go back. I understand their desire to be free of Russia, as I am an American who lives in a state that was once one of the original 13 colonies that declared independence from England, and then defeated England in a war to keep that independence. That is what the Ukrainians are doing now, fighting for their very right to self determination. For their right to exist. I think President Zelensky has much in common with a famous American revolutionary patriot, Patrick Henry, who said "Give me liberty, or give me death."
They were NOT "part of Russia" for 30 years, they were certainly NOT part of Russia back in 2014.
I think this should change your flow of thought a bit, no?
They were NOT "part of Russia" for 30 years, they were certainly NOT part of Russia back in 2014.
I think this should change your flow of thought a bit, no?
No, not even a little. They have not been part of Russia since the Soviet Union, and they do NOT want to be now. Again I ask, why does the Russian mind not understand this?
No, not even a little. They have not been part of Russia since the Soviet Union, and they do NOT want to be now. Again I ask, why does the Russian mind not understand this?
I PERFECTLY understand that they don't want to be part of Russia, but if that was their goal, they needed to be smarter in their politics, and they'd remain a separate state from Russia as it was for the last 30 years.
I PERFECTLY understand that they don't want to be part of Russia, but if that was their goal, they needed to be smarter in their politics, and they'd remain a separate state from Russia as it was for the last 30 years.
Separate as long as it’s a puppet leader loyal to Russia, Putin.
Separate as long as it’s a puppet leader loyal to Russia, Putin.
One more time, slowly.
This was the president that Ukraine VOTED for, particularly South-East of Ukraine.
This particular president ( Yanukovich that is) was balancing country just fine.
He could understand that the WEST of the country needed its trade/relations with Poland.
But the EAST of the country ( being more industrialized) simply needed its trade with Russia, and this included Russian gas first and utmost for industrial purposes.
Obviously, historically so, the South-East of the country was culturally more Russian than the Western part.
Russia ( I repeat it again) DIDNT want Ukraine to be "part of Russia," as in at all.
Putin's government didn't think that it was FINANCIALLY VIABLE for them.
Yanukovich on another hand was NOT all that "loyal to Russia"; he was "loyal" to Russian economy ( or rather the perks that he had there,) but he didn't mind EU at all.
But when he read the FINE PRINT of what the EU was offering to him in that "EU association" package, and compared it to what Putin offered to him for joining his "Custom union," he realized what a trap the economic offer from EU was.
And that's why he signed the deal with Russia instead, because it was MORE VIABLE for him from economic point of view.
This was not POLITICAL, but purely economic decision.
A lot of you are not familiar with a subject, or are simply in denial.
This was the president that Ukraine VOTED for, particularly South-East of Ukraine.
This particular president ( Yanukovich that is) was balancing country just fine.
He could understand that the WEST of the country needed its trade/relations with Poland.
But the EAST of the country ( being more industrialized) simply needed its trade with Russia, and this included Russian gas first and utmost for industrial purposes.
Obviously, historically so, the South-East of the country was culturally more Russian than the Western part.
Russia ( I repeat it again) DIDNT want Ukraine to be "part of Russia," as in at all.
Putin's government didn't think that it was FINANCIALLY VIABLE for them.
Yanukovich on another hand was NOT all that "loyal to Russia"; he was "loyal" to Russian economy ( or rather the perks that he had there,) but he didn't mind EU at all.
But when he read the FINE PRINT of what the EU was offering to him in that "EU association" package, and compared it to what Putin offered to him for joining his "Custom union," he realized what a trap the economic offer from EU was.
And that's why he signed the deal with Russia instead, because it was MORE VIABLE for him from economic point of view.
This was not POLITICAL, but purely economic decision.
A lot of you are not familiar with a subject, or are simply in denial.
It must be so frustrating to you that you've repeated all this countless times and no one is buying it. We are all just foolish western rubes who don't understand the complexities of your truth. Quixotic. Never give up chasing your windmills, comrade.
For as long as Putin could control Ukraine through his puppets, it was ok for some time at least. Putin took as a personal offense ousting of his puppet Yanukovich in the course of a popular uprising. He was displeased with Yanukovich' "softness", Ukrainian president did not have what it takes for a real crack down on protesters, he lost his cool after the first 100 dead and he had to be extracted by Russian special ops to Russia to never matter again, because der Putin had plan B, Crimean annexation followed by jump starting a low intensity hybrid war in Donbas.
Right now Russian Federation exercises some measure of control over 10 former Soviet republics. Baltic states got away, Ukraine was on its way towards an escape hatch. The crazy Kremlin rat decided to strike before Ukraine could escape Russian vassalage completely.
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