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Old 12-11-2018, 02:38 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,807,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Actually it is......only 2% Ukrainians thinks they are better off after Maidan..LOL



Russia is growing and pretty much everybody agrees (including west "experts") that the sanctions actually benefited Russia on some aspects...



It is easy to "expand" if you start from catastrophic levels LOL
Well, there was a mix of negatives and positives regarding the sanctions.

The cut off of FDI was a big negative, and had the most impact.

Some of the positives were development of local industries, like cheese, that grew due to the lack of imports.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:12 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Actually it is......only 2% Ukrainians thinks they are better off after Maidan..LOL



Russia is growing and pretty much everybody agrees (including west "experts") that the sanctions actually benefited Russia on some aspects...



It is easy to "expand" if you start from catastrophic levels LOL
You either can't read or you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said. I said their opinion is that the country's current problems are because of the Russian aggression in Donetsk and not the ouster of Yanukovich or the opening of trade with Europe.

I also did not say Russia isn't growing. Its rate of growth since 2015 is less than Ukraine's which by your own admission isn't that great of a bar. I'm interested to hear what supposed benefits Russia has from sanctions. If they are so great, I don't understand why they did not do this before the invasion of Ukraine. Maybe Russia needs more sanctions so they can afford to pay pensions over $150 a month.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:59 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Not even the most ardent pro Putin supporter I know of wants Yanukovich back. He was a thief and the country's economy was as bad or worse then as it is now for most ordinary people. Otherwise his successor Boyko would stand a chance in the upcoming elections. In some ways its better, in some ways its worse. And you can say the same thing about Russia.


But we already know that your "sampling" of Ukrainian population is extremely limited.

And now reality check; already back in 2017, when Ukrainian channel NewsOne was running the poll what government would people vote for now - the current one or the pre-Maidan ( read Yanukovitch,) 92% voted for Yanukovich government.


https://twitter.com/nourlnews/status/939741698665713664


Obviously, that NewsOne is under a threat to be closed by Ukrainian government.
Shows how much you ( your friends and family) know about what's going on in Ukraine.




Quote:
I'm well aware of Russia's desire to paint post Maidan Ukraine as ruined because of Maidan/EU/USA instead of ruined by Russian aggression.
That Ukraine can't stand on its own (it never existed on its own actually,) does not mean that the root of a problem is "Russian aggression." I understand that Poroshenko would love to make everyone believe that, but the truth is, lack of suitable natural resources, absence of funds and lack of desire on American and EU part to pour required funds for REAL transition of Ukraine to be part of EU. Too darn expensive.







Quote:
This may be the opinion of millions of Russians. But its not the opinion of most Ukrainians.
I already pointed you at opinions of Ukrainians. Whether it's an opinion of majority or not - nobody knows, as long as Nazi battalions are around and their "activists" rule the streets.





Quote:
Putin thinks he can succeed in planting this idea because it worked in Russia (that they will be poor like in the 90s if he isn't in power). However he has issues because many Russians know the truth that their economy sucks because of the sanctions due to the occupation of Donbas.
And Crimea. Don't forget Crimea.

And majority of Russians think that national security ( which Crimea undoubtedly is part of,) is totally worth it.


Quote:
Some uncomfortable facts for Putin: Ukraine's economy is expanding faster than Russia's. Per capita PPP is higher in 2018 than at any time in its history. So now he must effectively close the Kerch straight in order to drag down Ukraine's economy in the east to make those people "miss the Yanukovich times".
Yeah. Please do tell this to Ukrainians who sit without heat and hot water now as we speak.
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:37 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

Yeah. Please do tell this to Ukrainians who sit without heat and hot water now as we speak.
I can't tell them that because those are the ones living in Russian occupied Donetsk.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:23 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,565,479 times
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America, Crimea, and Ukraine: The Desirable over the Achievable
By Alexander G. Markovsky, American Thinker

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...chievable.html
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:33 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Wow a Russian writes an article to tell us Ukraine should be split up along Putin's wishes. How enlightening. Small problem with his idea of Eastern Ukrainian independence: of the 2 million people who left the Donbas, 1.3 million of them live in "Kiev" controlled Ukraine, the rest left the country.

In other Russian news, the smoke and mirrors of Putin's regime sadly continue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...?CMP=edit_2221
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
Russian citizens is a Putins zombies
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:27 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,565,479 times
Reputation: 11136
Don't let Ukraine drag America into war

Ukraine’s behavior in the Kerch Strait is another example of a U.S. ally (or security dependent) trying to gain American military backing for its own parochial agenda. Georgia sought to do that in 2008 regarding its territorial dispute with Russia over two secessionist regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A European Union-sponsored report subsequently concluded that Georgia started the fighting that broke out in August of that year. And there is little doubt that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili expected to get much stronger support from the United States and NATO than he ultimately received.

There are other examples of such self-serving behavior. Saudi Arabia routinely attempts to entangle the United States in Riyadh’s regional power struggle with Tehran. Washington’s shameful support for the Saudi-led military intervention in Yemen suggests that the effort has not been in vain.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature...rica-war-38367

Actually, they've admitted Iran's role in Yemen is not significant. They found that the US and UK were supplying arms to the Houthis as well as Saudi Arabia.

The previous author works for a conservative think tank in London. But since MI6 says 50% of Russian ex-pats are spies, he must be a spy or a half a spy. Wonder how the rest of them eat, knowing that the person sitting across from them is a spy.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:46 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
America, Crimea, and Ukraine: The Desirable over the Achievable
By Alexander G. Markovsky, American Thinker

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...chievable.html
Thanx Ichi. Some things are interesting in this tidbit.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:51 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Don't let Ukraine drag America into war

Ukraine’s behavior in the Kerch Strait is another example of a U.S. ally (or security dependent) trying to gain American military backing for its own parochial agenda. Georgia sought to do that in 2008 regarding its territorial dispute with Russia over two secessionist regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. A European Union-sponsored report subsequently concluded that Georgia started the fighting that broke out in August of that year. And there is little doubt that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili expected to get much stronger support from the United States and NATO than he ultimately received.

There are other examples of such self-serving behavior. Saudi Arabia routinely attempts to entangle the United States in Riyadh’s regional power struggle with Tehran. Washington’s shameful support for the Saudi-led military intervention in Yemen suggests that the effort has not been in vain.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature...rica-war-38367

Actually, they've admitted Iran's role in Yemen is not significant. They found that the US and UK were supplying arms to the Houthis as well as Saudi Arabia.

The previous author works for a conservative think tank in London. But since MI6 says 50% of Russian ex-pats are spies, he must be a spy or a half a spy. Wonder how the rest of them eat, knowing that the person sitting across from them is a spy.
Another thing I've noticed is there seems to be a lot of Georgian sounding names that pop up here in there concerning Ukraine. The Kiev junta takes orders/advice from someone.

Any way the Kiev junta is trying for "victim" status in this mess as the first asticle stated. That's been obvious for some time and not many in the west are going to hop on board.

Sorry DKM. No pity here until you all roll around in the mud a little more.
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