Do you think society looks down on men who date larger women? (brunette, difference)

[newdixiegirl]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

Eddie, as a man who married a woman twice his size (literally - I was low 200's and she low 400's when we married), I can assure you that you're right on about your assumptions. It is ALL about what society, and the big-money media machine, brainwash us into thinking is attractive or preferable.

Now, in my mid-30's, I very rarely hear anything. Not long ago, a lady at one of the nursing homes where we play commented on how good looking I am, and how I could have done so much better than my wife. That's the only comment I've gotten, of that ilk, since marrying her almost 4 years ago. (Bear in mind that the lady was probably around 50 years old, fully "with it" upstairs, missing a leg for whatever reason, and a smoker. Obviously not a happy person to begin with. I find it quite ironic that such a person would chide me for dating someone of an unusual appearance.)

Good post, Romani. So nice to know that there are men out there who are sure enough of themselves and their masculinity to date/marry whomever they want - societal expectations be damned.

I'm not a larger woman, but I am in my 40s, and I'm very attracted to a younger guy I've worked with for a couple of years (he's 40) and with whom I'm having a 3rd date. I never thought I'd ever be interested in a younger guy, so this has really taken me by surprise, and I'm trying to get comfortable with the age difference. Not so much because of discomfort I feel, necessarily, but because of how he might feel when he finds out my age. I wonder, too, if he would feel any kind of "peer pressure" to instead date someone society dictates is more suitable for him (ie. someone younger). Though I'd be disappointed if he felt uncomfortable with the fact that I'm a few years older, I'd certainly understand, as well.

Because I'd hate to think that if we were to continue dating that he'd be subjected to similar ridicule that lilyflower says her brother has experienced, or that men with larger women experience. I'd like to think that he would feel the same way you do.

BTW, I cannot believe that people can be as rude as that woman in the nursing home was. Where on earth do some people get the idea that a) their opinion about someone else's SO matters?; and b) that they have the right to express that opinion? Unbelievable.

[The Mysterious Benefactor]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

If I found out that my wife's physically ideal man was someone other than me, it would hurt regardless of how "inaccessible" the other man is. If a woman thinks that Shemar Moore is "ideal", then she ought to find a guy who looks damn near Shemar Moore. I'm sure that he isn't the only dude out there who looks like he does... he's just the most visible due to being on TV.

That's unfortunate. Few of us represent the physical "ideal" to our partners. My wife is thin and attractive, but she isn't perfect and, of course, neither am I to her. It doesn't hurt me to know that.

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

My honesty is so legendary that even my ex-wife, with whom I had many a fight during our tempestuous three-year marriage, has said that I am the most honest person she's ever known (she said this after the divorce, and I still have the e-mail to prove it). Thus, you can rightly assume that I am being totally honest.

I think you are being honest, and very open. I think a lot of the other posters have not been forthright in admitting how they would view you if they saw you in public with your wife.

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

I don't know about that. It's no great secret that ~2/3 of Americans are overweight and about 1/3 of Americans are obese. I can't imagine that that 1/3 of Americans has a substantially smaller proportion of admirers.

I think you may be surprised how lonely and invisible many obese women feel.

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

And even if they are an aberration, so what? Do you look at two gay men and think the same things that you mentioned in your post?
"And yes, I do look at him differently. I presume that there's something wrong with him." - do you think there's something wrong with a gay person?
If not, if you think that homosexuality is not a choice, then you might do well to think the same way about people like me who prefer large members of the opposite gender. I've been this way since age 2 and none of my efforts to change that amounted to anything... though I did date some short and/or thin women in my time, I was never satisfied with the way they look. Now I've got a woman who is 6'3" and not far removed from 400 pounds... and I can't tell you how great it is to look at her every day and see my idea of real beauty. It totally blows away looking at my girl and thinking that there are others whose appearances I prefer.

Honestly, yes, I think the same thing about homosexuals, but that's a topic for a different thread. And I understand, we all like what we like, but because it is so strange to the rest of society, it views you differently. Most people figure there must be some rational explanation as to why you'd be with her, because you couldn't possibly be physically attracted to her.

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

This is a phenomenon limited to Western cultures and those that have been strongly influenced by Western culture. In Samoa, fat = beautiful in both genders. In many cultures in other continents that aren't influenced by Western culture, a fat woman = a tougher and more capable woman. I actually read a study a few years back which determined that in cultures influenced by Western culture, the ideal chest - waist - hips ratio in a woman is 1:0.7:1. However, in cultures without that influence, it is 1:1:1. Go figure.

This is just not so. Compared to the US, obese women in many other countries(save Africa) are viewed and treated far worse. To wit, Asian nations, hardly a bastion of Western culture, hold obese women in the highest disdain. This is a much more complex issue than Western cultural influence.

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

ME!! I can honestly say I don't care one bit about my wife's weight. When I first met her, she was 456 pounds and she was gorgeous. She's now 372 and she's gorgeous. I occasionally bust a little push to get her to keep losing weight, but only because she regularly talks about wanting to do so (or she complains about something that her size makes uncomfortable or impossible)... so it's not because I care personally, it's because I know that she'd be happier at a lower weight. If I knew that she'd never have any health problems due to her weight, and she was totally happy at this weight, I'd never say a word. She looks amazing at her current size. No sense changing perfection arbitrarily.

I understand you're happy with your wife, and that's a good thing. But fair or not, society does in fact look down on you for your choice. The assumption is that you're with her because you're lazy or have some other unseen fault that makes you undesirable.

[The Mysterious Benefactor]

Originally Posted by randomlikeme

In what situations though are "all else being equal"? This will NEVER happen except in a world of purely hypothetical situations.

Of course it wouldn't. That's what it was; purely hypothetical to better illustrate the point.

Originally Posted by randomlikeme

I also think I would look down more on a guy that was dating an unintelligent woman who could never take care of herself and needs a man to support her than I would for dating a larger woman. Far more.

You might(though I find it hard to believe), but you'd be in a distinct minority. A "trophy wife" who stays home while her husband supports the family is largely a status symbol in US society. Of course, presuming her to be unintelligent and/or unable to take care of herself takes a bit of the humanity out of it, don't you think?

[randomlikeme]

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

You might(though I find it hard to believe), but you'd be in a distinct minority. A "trophy wife" who stays home while her husband supports the family is largely a status symbol in US society. Of course, presuming her to be unintelligent and/or unable to take care of herself takes a bit of the humanity out of it, don't you think?

Not at all, but I think you are making a general effort to implore my rhetorical strategy against me and I really don't think you quite get the context of the usage demonstrated by what you wrote above. Here's the thing, though. It doesn't work in this case, because unlike in a case where you state you are comparing two women who are all the same except one is overweight and one isn't, there are actual honest-to-goodness real life scenarios where this happens, where a man will marry someone who is not bringing much other than their existence to the table. There are some women who have never held a job in their lives. I see it a lot in my town where a lot of women will marry a military man and then never work a day in their lives. Go straight from mommy and daddy to hubby. I would look down on guys that date THAT type of woman, the one who has never and could never take care of herself.

There are NO cases where two women are the same except for weight, but there are plenty of cases of women who are dependent upon men for everything. I look down on women who must be provided for and thus look down on the men who take care of them, too. She may not even be a "trophy wife", because it is not just beautiful women who do this.

I don't care if I am in the minority. All I can say is I am glad my parents raised me to be a good person, to be independent, and to have a strong will. I am not passive or dependent upon anyone else and I am more than just my looks. There are plenty of beautiful women who are more than just their looks.

If we are going down the route of judging a man based upon the looks of his wife, then I state that I judge men who will marry women who are dependents. I would rather see a man with an overweight woman who is his equal and partner than with a dependent.

[Huckleberry3911948]

Yes and mostly by heavy women who look down on a guy for dating a heavy woman
and why? Bek I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me for a member
Signed a former overweight

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

I think you may be surprised how lonely and invisible many obese women feel.

That goes for any that doesn't meet society's ideal standard for beauty. Too tall, too short, too busty, too hippy, and on and on - but yes the big women probably get it the worst. The main issue is society conditions women who aren't considered "pretty" to believe they can't be attractive even at their best so they might feel uncomfortable and timid around someone who genuinely finds them attractive because obviously they must be some kind of freak or low class individual.

[The Mysterious Benefactor]

Originally Posted by randomlikeme

Not at all, but I think you are making a general effort to implore my rhetorical strategy against me and I really don't think you quite get the context of the usage demonstrated by what you wrote above. Here's the thing, though. It doesn't work in this case, because unlike in a case where you state you are comparing two women who are all the same except one is overweight and one isn't, there are actual honest-to-goodness real life scenarios where this happens, where a man will marry someone who is not bringing much other than their existence to the table. There are some women who have never held a job in their lives. I see it a lot in my town where a lot of women will marry a military man and then never work a day in their lives. Go straight from mommy and daddy to hubby. I would look down on guys that date THAT type of woman, the one who has never and could never take care of herself.

There are NO cases where two women are the same except for weight, but there are plenty of cases of women who are dependent upon men for everything. I look down on women who must be provided for and thus look down on the men who take care of them, too. She may not even be a "trophy wife", because it is not just beautiful women who do this.

I don't care if I am in the minority. All I can say is I am glad my parents raised me to be a good person, to be independent, and to have a strong will. I am not passive or dependent upon anyone else and I am more than just my looks. There are plenty of beautiful women who are more than just their looks.

If we are going down the route of judging a man based upon the looks of his wife, then I state that I judge men who will marry women who are dependents. I would rather see a man with an overweight woman who is his equal and partner than with a dependent.

Uhhh, OK. Good for you.

[The Mysterious Benefactor]

Originally Posted by Tourian

That goes for any that doesn't meet society's ideal standard for beauty. Too tall, too short, too busty, too hippy, and on and on - but yes the big women probably get it the worst. The main issue is society conditions women who aren't considered "pretty" to believe they can't be attractive even at their best so they might feel uncomfortable and timid around someone who genuinely finds them attractive because obviously they must be some kind of freak or low class individual.

Yes, this is true; you make a good point. As much as one may hate to be called "average", it isn't so bad, is it? Not too fat, not too thin, not too short, not too tall, not too smart, not too dumb, etc.
You're right on this point, too. Society conditions everyone to believe things about themselves, and others, that often aren't true: Fat women aren't attractive, short men aren't masculine, smart people are nerds, etc. I wish it wasn't so, I really do. In a perfect world, everyone is judged by what they do, nothing more. But this is the world we live in; a human one, guided by instinct and emotion as much as anything else.

[iknowftbll]

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

I have to question whether some of the posters on this thread are being totally honest. I'll freely admit I've seen younger couples in public and have asked myself "what on earth is he doing with her?". Ladies, you've never asked yourself "How did she get him"? Be honest.

Have you ever asked yourself why you ask yourself this? Do you think that on some level it is a result of your own limited understanding of attraction? (NOTE: That is not meant as an insult, even though it sounds like one. It is meant as a question: Have you considered your understanding of attraction is limited?)

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

Yes, I do question why a thin, attractive man would be with an obese woman. And yes, I do look at him differently. I presume that there's something wrong with him. I figure he's probably a bum and she supports him, or some other reason. When I see older couples like this, I assume she gained all of the weight after they were married and now he's stuck.

I can assure you nothing is or ever was wrong with me. I've never been a bum, and never supported by any of my partners. Again, I'd challenge you to consider you've not fully explored the idea of attraction. I am a reasonably attractive guy (never had issues dating/attracting women), have always had a job/career, have a master's degree, etc. I'm married now, and my wife has steadily lost weight. I'm as attracted to her as I ever was. But when she was at her peak weight, I was attracted then as I ever was. We're all wired a little differently.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

How any man could see two women, one fit, the other obese(all else being equal), and prefer the latter is beyond me. Obviously a few do, but they're a tiny minority, just an aberration. I would guess that more than 99% of men prefer women who are of normal weight. I think it's only natural to wonder what is different about the few who don't.

I think it is a fair question, though I think the degree to which you make your claim is greatly overstated. FWIW, I'm one of those guys who has passed on more than one fit woman to pursue a bigger woman. I'd dated everything from exotic dancer to BBW and enjoyed it all.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

Now before you start calling me shallow and lecturing me with all of the silly adages("It's what's on the inside that counts"), understand that how one takes care of their body and appearance says a lot about them. Again, be honest, how many of you don't care at all about your partner's weight? Don't you think your partner has an obligation to take care of him/herself and remain physically attractive to you? If your partner was obese when you met, would you have pursued him/her?

I think people have an obligation to be true to themselves. When my wife was at her peak weight, I loved it. But she didn't. Had she announced to me out of the blue that she was learning to love herself as she was and it wasn't so bad being at her weight, and if her husband loves her like that it was good enough for her, then I would have been thrilled. Instead the closest I ever got to hearing that was a moment of frustration when she said, "I give up. I hope you meant it when you said you love me at this weight because you're stuck with a fat wife now." When I heard that part of me wanted to jump for joy, but the part of me that actually thinks and cares knew this was a bad thing. I knew she didn't want that for herself. She wanted to lose weight and now she has. She did it because she wanted to. Had she wanted to say at her highest weight I would have been fine with that. I'm very proud of her, though because she did what she wanted and needed to do for herself.

That was a long way of answering your question, but in essence, a person's first obligations are to themselves. This is not to say I support being selfish. But if one is not true to himself/herself, to what extent can they be trusted to be true to others?

[RomaniGypsy]

Originally Posted by newdixiegirl

Good post, Romani. So nice to know that there are men out there who are sure enough of themselves and their masculinity to date/marry whomever they want - societal expectations be damned.

I suppose it helps that I'm autistic and have always been ostracized by society, such that I never knew what it was like to meet society's expectations.

Originally Posted by newdixiegirl

I'm not a larger woman, but I am in my 40s, and I'm very attracted to a younger guy I've worked with for a couple of years (he's 40) and with whom I'm having a 3rd date. I never thought I'd ever be interested in a younger guy, so this has really taken me by surprise, and I'm trying to get comfortable with the age difference. Not so much because of discomfort I feel, necessarily, but because of how he might feel when he finds out my age. I wonder, too, if he would feel any kind of "peer pressure" to instead date someone society dictates is more suitable for him (ie. someone younger). Though I'd be disappointed if he felt uncomfortable with the fact that I'm a few years older, I'd certainly understand, as well.

"A few years older" in your 40's is not a bad thing. Besides, you may luck out and find that this guy prefers older women. My brother prefers older women and he's 30.

Originally Posted by newdixiegirl

BTW, I cannot believe that people can be as rude as that woman in the nursing home was. Where on earth do some people get the idea that a) their opinion about someone else's SO matters?; and b) that they have the right to express that opinion? Unbelievable.

I think they don't even consider this. To me it's not so much a result of deep thought on the matter as it is a window into the condition of the speaker's mind. That lady was obviously very unhappy. Only an unhappy person could bust a comment like that. When she said "you could have had anyone", I replied by saying "you're right, I could have had anyone. I never had trouble getting dates. Yet I chose her. Obviously that shows you how I feel about the way she looks!"... to that, she had no response. You can't reason with some people. Maybe she'd see things differently if she found herself a man who liked her the way she was... hey, it's possible... but first she'd have to be in a better place in her own mind.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

That's unfortunate. Few of us represent the physical "ideal" to our partners. My wife is thin and attractive, but she isn't perfect and, of course, neither am I to her. It doesn't hurt me to know that.

Why did y'all settle for "less than ideal"? That's illogical to me. There was a time, when I was in college, when my girlfriend (at the time) told me that her ideal man was tall, dark and British. Well, I'm tall... and I have British heritage... but I'm damn near ghost-white. So I said "Well, I'm only one of the three, so what are you doing with me?" Her response: "Oh, that's just a fantasy. You're my reality."

I dumped her the next day.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything but anytime a person has settled for "less than ideal" in the looks department, it's been for one of the following reasons:

1) lack of sufficient self-confidence to believe that he/she can land "the ideal"
2) belief that the person's other qualities will overshadow the less than ideal looks (been there, done that... but it never worked, at least not for me)
3) truly feeling that looks are not important (which may be true if you're blind, but beyond that, I haven't known anyone who felt that way)

Maybe it's just that I feel highly enough about myself that I always felt I deserved to be seen as physically ideal by one woman. I couldn't care less if any other women see me as such... but as long as my wife does, we're good.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

I think you may be surprised how lonely and invisible many obese women feel.

No I wouldn't. I've dated them ever since age 17 and I've been friends with many more. Ironically enough, an obese woman is the least "invisible" of any woman out there... but surely what you mean is that they get mostly ignored by men. That I can see... it's happened quite a bit. However, I can also tell you that I've known my share of overweight / obese women who never seemed to be without a date. It's not all about weight, it's about how one carries oneself. An obese woman doesn't have to be promiscuous to attract a significant amount of male attention, either. I think, to be truthful, that the biggest concern that men have when considering dating fat women is that they're going to be head cases. This is mostly true, but not due to the fault of the women... this one is all about society. When you grow up being told that you're ugly, even if by no one else other than the big-money media machine, it's going to mess with your mind. You find me an obese woman with self-confidence equal to that of any average-sized woman out there, and no head issues, and I'll show you an obese woman who will never have trouble getting dates.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

Honestly, yes, I think the same thing about homosexuals, but that's a topic for a different thread. And I understand, we all like what we like, but because it is so strange to the rest of society, it views you differently. Most people figure there must be some rational explanation as to why you'd be with her, because you couldn't possibly be physically attracted to her.

I wish there were a logical explanation for taste. There is no such thing. There really is no accounting for taste. Think about the foods you like - why do you like them? You can't answer that question. You might be able to tout their health benefits but you cannot explain why your taste buds find them appealing and other foods unappealing. Tastes just "are". They may be alterable to an extent, but rarely can they be changed completely.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

This is just not so. Compared to the US, obese women in many other countries(save Africa) are viewed and treated far worse. To wit, Asian nations, hardly a bastion of Western culture, hold obese women in the highest disdain. This is a much more complex issue than Western cultural influence.

I never said that these other nations were bastions of Western culture. It's not about the pervasion of Western culture; it's about the influence of Western culture. Are other factors at play? Sure. This is a very complex issue that probably will never be resolved no matter how much it is studied. But you have to look at what men value in a woman, in order to figure out why they like the body types they like. For example, in Japan, men seem to be valuing youthful appearances. Being fat wouldn't necessarily work with this type of taste. In America, it's all about looking like celebrities. (Heck, I just read an article about how there is a burgeoning business in America catering to women who want bigger butts... because of celebrities like Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, and Nicki Minaj who are flaunting their big butts. I told my wife yesterday that for the money these people are paying for butt-enhancement surgery and padded pants, she obviously has a million-dollar butt already!)

However, it wasn't always this way. Not long ago, fat women were preferred in America as well as in Britain because being fat meant that she came from a family wealthy enough to afford to feed her well. When wealth is the most important thing, then the evidence thereof will be seen as most attractive. I haven't studied this in depth but I have read a few studies about it.

Originally Posted by The Mysterious Benefactor

I understand you're happy with your wife, and that's a good thing. But fair or not, society does in fact look down on you for your choice. The assumption is that you're with her because you're lazy or have some other unseen fault that makes you undesirable.

Let 'em think that way. At least then that means that shallow men who'd never make the cut to be "friends" of mine won't waste my time, and women will leave me alone instead of trying to flirt with me. There are benefits.

I really know of nobody who ever benefited to any significant extent by trying to please society, or by going along with what society implicitly wants for them instead of dancing to the beat of their own drums. If doing as society would have one do were so great, then these celebrities (who have it all - fame, fortune, admiration, etc) would never use drugs nor end up in jail nor commit suicide. Apparently, playing by all of society's rules doesn't produce a winning outcome either. Another poster said that if you cannot be true to yourself, how can you be true to others? 'Twas Shakespeare himself who famously wrote about that, several hundred years ago. We must all be true to ourselves, society be damned. I honestly hope that we're witnessing a revolution in this regard, where people are shunning societal influences more than ever. There are benefits to this.