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This thread can have it's differences that's for sure.
Reminded of a few yrs back where a soldier had married a Plump blonde and while stationed in the middle east she wrote him that there would be a surprise waiting him on his return back to the US.
So he is at the planes door looking for his wife when a strange looking blonde who was a "10" and looked like she had just stepped off the cover of a Vogue magazine runs up to him. He was startled and uneasy with this strange woman as he remembered his wife being plump when they got married and this woman did not look like her at all....True story.
What exactly are you trying to say here, Steve? What, that a "plump" girl can't be a 10? Sounds like you have some "stereotypical misconceptions"...
No one claimed that it was unique to overweight women, only that it's common among them. And calling it a "stereotype" doesn't make it untrue. As I mentioned before, you have your experience and I have mine. I've known several guys who dated big girls, and the reasons were much like D217 described, and it was obvious.
Sure, nobody claimed it was unique to overweight women, but nobody bothered to point out it was NOT unique to overweight women until I chimed in. You're welcome.
Regarding the guys you've known who dated overweight women for the reasons you and D217 described, the reasons people pursue who they pursue is as varied as it gets. Someone may have those reasons for dating an overweight woman and he may find it to be true. I would argue more often than not this hypothetical guy just happened to get lucky, and that the woman in question already has those personality traits described by virtue of her personality and not her weight. Your associates are probably just as likely to encounter overweight women who do not even come close to fitting the description you've given.
I sense from your posts that you have a real problem with attractive women. You seem to presume them to be empty-headed, talent-less, unmotivated, no personality, etc. What drives this? That's kind of like assuming all the big girls are undesirable, isn't it?
Actually, the attractive women I know are talented, and motivated. But then I don't hang around with the lowest common denominator! I do think that some women are, unfortunately, "validated" by their looks alone, and this doesn't encourage them to view themselves as something more than that. And I actually blame the people who validate them (others who share lowest common denominator values) than I do them. Some of them have been "brainwashed" from childhood to think that this is all that life is.
And actually if you read what I've written, I've claimed that more women (I don't differentiate between the attractive and unattractive, because I don't think it makes a difference) would rather continue to work on their ambitions and dreams, than give it all up for a life of idleness, if they were to marry a Mister Moneybags. The beautiful women I know definitely wouldn't give up on the things they love, that's for sure.
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I've not given any indication that I'm upset or bothered by anyone's tastes, only that I find them strange.
You are incredulous.
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Much like I view the guy who enjoys eating chilled monkey brains or some such thing. A "what is wrong with you"? kind of reaction.
And this. You really find it so difficult to believe? You are bothered, deeply, that these men would feel this way. Expand your horizons a bit.
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Again, I've given no indication that I do care "so much".
Absolutely you do! You equate liking a big girl to something unanimously repulsive, like eating monkey brains. That's an extreme reaction!
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In fact, I don't care at all.
That's why you're here arguing and arguing and arguing! Because you don't care!
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The difference here is that, I've been willing to be honest about how I see these type of men.
You think there is something terribly wrong with them. How can you simultaneously be saying "More power to them!" and also be thinking that something is terribly wrong with them?
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No, I didn't choose my wife based on what my friends would think or how society would view me.
But you phrased it earlier, "I wouldn't be caught dead being seen with..." That says you care about how other people see you. Interesting choice of words.
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And this all rings very hypocritical coming from someone who spent considerable time condemning men who would have trophy wives.
Oh, I knew that was coming! It's terrible that I don't praise someone who does not do anything, doesn't contribute anything to society, (and the men who enable that), but it's okay for you to think there is something terribly wrong with someone for choosing a mate who looks in a way that you don't like—there's something terribly wrong with him for that!
I can say that I think people who never accomplish anything and only obsess about their looks are ending up unhappy, sad people. Or do you think that those who never push themselves, never strive to educate and improve themselves, do you think that this is a worthy way to be? Would you encourage your sons or daughters to live like that?
Actually, the attractive women I know are talented, and motivated. But then I don't hang around with the lowest common denominator! I do think that some women are, unfortunately, "validated" by their looks alone, and this doesn't encourage them to view themselves as something more than that. And I actually blame the people who validate them (others who share lowest common denominator values) than I do them. Some of them have been "brainwashed" from childhood to think that this is all that life is.
And actually if you read what I've written, I've claimed that more women (I don't differentiate between the attractive and unattractive, because I don't think it makes a difference) would rather continue to work on their ambitions and dreams, than give it all up for a life of idleness, if they were to marry a Mister Moneybags. The beautiful women I know definitely wouldn't give up on the things they love, that's for sure.
I have to question how many attractive women you actually know. You seem to have a deep resentment/jealousy of them, hence the vitriol. And even still, you don't blame them, you blame "the people who validate them", i.e men. Isn't that what your real problem is? That society is dominated by men and places expectations on women that you find unfair?
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Originally Posted by elvira310
You are incredulous.
And this. You really find it so difficult to believe? You are bothered, deeply, that these men would feel this way. Expand your horizons a bit.
Absolutely you do! You equate liking a big girl to something unanimously repulsive, like eating monkey brains. That's an extreme reaction!
Not what I said. I said most men find obese women repulsive. To be attracted to them is strange. It doesn't bother me, it's just hard to understand. Some people like to eat monkey brains. It doesn't bother me, it's just hard to understand.
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Originally Posted by elvira310
That's why you're here arguing and arguing and arguing! Because you don't care!
Actually, I'm not arguing, I'm just presenting my viewpoint. I've taken the position that society looks down on men who choose to date fat women. And I've been honest in stating that I've asked myself questions about them when I see such men in public. You, on the other hand, are getting borderline hysterical. It seems you are more bothered by someone holding an opinion different from yours.
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Originally Posted by elvira310
You think there is something terribly wrong with them. How can you simultaneously be saying "More power to them!" and also be thinking that something is terribly wrong with them?
Again, not what I said. I do question whether something is wrong with them because it's such a strange attraction, but at the end of the day, their choice doesn't impact me. If that's what they want to do, more power to em. Same analogy: I can't understand how someone could enjoy monkey brains, but if that's what what they want to eat, more power to em.
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Originally Posted by elvira310
But you phrased it earlier, "I wouldn't be caught dead being seen with..." That says you care about how other people see you. Interesting choice of words.
I've already acknowledged that I care, to some degree, about how other people see me. Again, we all do. Only some of us are willing to admit it.
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Originally Posted by elvira310
Oh, I knew that was coming! It's terrible that I don't praise someone who does not do anything, doesn't contribute anything to society, (and the men who enable that), but it's okay for you to think there is something terribly wrong with someone for choosing a mate who looks in a way that you don't like—there's something terribly wrong with him for that!
I don't expect you to praise anyone. It was you who said we should just 'live our lives, stop condemning and get over it'. Does that not apply to you?
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Originally Posted by elvira310
I can say that I think people who never accomplish anything and only obsess about their looks are ending up unhappy, sad people. Or do you think that those who never push themselves, never strive to educate and improve themselves, do you think that this is a worthy way to be? Would you encourage your sons or daughters to live like that?
I agree that those obsessed with their looks will eventually find themselves unhappy. You don't hear me defending people like this. But I would counter by saying that those obsessed about little more than their next meal end up unhappy, sad people as well. And aren't those who "validate" them(chubby chasers) keeping them from improving themselves? Surely, we can agree that being fit is a worthwhile pursuit, no? Do you think being grossly obese is a worthy way to be?
Sure, nobody claimed it was unique to overweight women, but nobody bothered to point out it was NOT unique to overweight women until I chimed in. You're welcome.
Oh, I see. You were just offering a counterpoint to a point that hadn't been made, aka a straw man. OK, thanks.
The thing about Black guys is quite the interesting point. Society isn't unanimous on this. If you go to a bunch of White people from Denver or Seattle and you show them a picture of a larger woman, they might think she's repulsive. But if you go down South and show some Black guys the same picture, they might think she is attractive. I have gotten into quite the debates about what's hot when I'm around Black guys. I them thin and with small butts. They like them "thick" and with big butts. I don't necessarily need a petite woman, but one of the girls I dated was 5'0, small boned, and with a small butt and a very thin frame. No hourglass to be seen like a Kardashian. NO Black guy ever hit on her. Ever.
Recently I dated a girl who was 5'6, had a large butt and Black guys hit on her ALL the time. I couldn't go anywhere without Black guys hitting on her and I always had to tell them she was with me. They of course backed off but would also say things like "damn White boy got game" because I had this girl with a bigger butt and a more hourglass shape. Which is interesting because I definitely would say I am physically attracted to the small butt girl without the hourglass shape. I think women of ALL looks can be attractive but my own preference definitely leans to the thinner for sure. Even girls with muscle I don't find that attractive, even if it's "lean muscle" like a fitness model. I just don't get into that.
I don't think there is a unanimous opinion. In the South, you might find that larger women get hit on more. In the West, probably never. In the Northeast, it's probably a toss-up. I know many Italian women aren't twigs and they tend to be more "hippy" than women of Northern European descent. I mean the guy who was with Snooki wasn't a big dude and Snooki by many would be considered chubby or plump. I think in somewhere like NYC a woman could look like anything and she'd get hit on because there's so many people there that one opinion doesn't dominate.
Oh, I see. You were just offering a counterpoint to a point that hadn't been made, aka a straw man. OK, thanks.
I think you need to take a philosophy class at your local community college if you believe that is a straw man.
In the context of this discussion, the point that certain traits are "common" among overweight women may be perceived as "unique" to overweight women. However a lot of these same traits are "common" among women who are not overweight as well, a truth that should be considered in the interest of intellectual honesty within this discussion. It's not a "counterpoint to a point that hadn't been made." It is a caveat to a point that has been made. If you're not willing to consider all aspects of an argument you are limiting your understanding of the issue, something I've suspected of you since you joined this conversation.
I think you need to take a philosophy class at your local community college if you believe that is a straw man.
In the context of this discussion, the point that certain traits are "common" among overweight women may be perceived as "unique" to overweight women. However a lot of these same traits are "common" among women who are not overweight as well, a truth that should be considered in the interest of intellectual honesty within this discussion. It's not a "counterpoint to a point that hadn't been made." It is a caveat to a point that has been made. If you're not willing to consider all aspects of an argument you are limiting your understanding of the issue, something I've suspected of you since you joined this conversation.
I agree that those obsessed with their looks will eventually find themselves unhappy. You don't hear me defending people like this. But I would counter by saying that those obsessed about little more than their next meal end up unhappy, sad people as well. And aren't those who "validate" them(chubby chasers) keeping them from improving themselves? Surely, we can agree that being fit is a worthwhile pursuit, no? Do you think being grossly obese is a worthy way to be?
In the context of this discussion and coupled with the second line I've bolded, it is easy deduce your argument is overweight women are obsessed with little more than their next meal. You may not intend this, but it is a fair conclusion for the reasons I've listed. And again, I'm obliged to point out 1) this is not unique to overweight women and 2) that there are many overweight women who are intelligent, put together nicely, articulate, and have life goals far beyond their next meal. You are free to dislike whomever you please, it is no skin off of my nose. But if you are going to leave a written record of your thoughts at least give some credit where it is due and refrain from furthering idiotic assumptions.
Lastly, the paragraph as a whole is a projection of your values onto other people. I think we all do this to an extent, so in the interest of fairness I'll acknowledge that. But it is important to recognize your values are your values and not universal. Nor are they necessarily any better than anyone else's. It's important to step back and consider that from time to time.
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