[ferret111]

This argument has always been ridiculous to me. If you don't like smoke, go to a different bar. Not all of them allow smoking. Why do we need laws regulating personal choices? If I have a bar or a restaurant, I should be allowed to decide whether I want it to be smoking or non.

[cheerbaby112]

Originally Posted by ferret111

This argument has always been ridiculous to me. If you don't like smoke, go to a different bar. Not all of them allow smoking. Why do we need laws regulating personal choices? If I have a bar or a restaurant, I should be allowed to decide whether I want it to be smoking or non.

Because its a health issue. Maybe you want to smoke but the people around you dont. I come from a place where You may not smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a building and It is enforced. For those with asthma and other upper resp. diseases its very difficult to go past the smoke. Its even worse if you are pregnant.

[jdoty]

So why should you be able to tell a bar owner how to run his or her business? If you don't like the smoking policy at a bar, don't go there. It's that simple. Besides, the vast majority of bars here don't allow smoking because they want to sell food. At least in Melbourne, I can only think of one or two bars that allow smoking. I choose not to go to them. Smokers can enjoy a smoking bar, I can enjoy a smoke-free bar. It's seems like a fair compromise.

Let me guess, you want cigar bars and hookah bars closed also? What about banning happy meal toys like San Francisco did, or banning trans fats like NY?

[cheerbaby112]

Originally Posted by jdoty

So why should you be able to tell a bar owner how to run his or her business? If you don't like the smoking policy at a bar, don't go there. It's that simple. Besides, the vast majority of bars here don't allow smoking because they want to sell food. At least in Melbourne, I can only think of one or two bars that allow smoking. I choose not to go to them. Smokers can enjoy a smoking bar, I can enjoy a smoke-free bar. It's seems like a fair compromise.

Let me guess, you want cigar bars and hookah bars closed also? What about banning happy meal toys like San Francisco did, or banning trans fats like NY?

Thats like trying to say the health department cant tell a restaurant/bar owner that they need to wash their hands, dishes, etc.. Its the same thing. This is a health issue. Because you want to smoke doesnt mean we need to be subjected to it.


No, Hookah Bars and Cigar Bars you know there is going to be smoking. However if you are new to the area or are trying something new for the first time you arent sure which bar/club/restaurant has smoking and which one doesnt. Thats what makes it a health issue if you already have a compromised immune system. You wont see someone pregnant or someone with asthma/copd going to a hookah or cigar bar. Multiple reports show that smoking and second-hand smoke cause immediate damage to the heat and lungs Second-hand smoke kills more than 600000 people each year.


By the way the trans fat ban in NYC is only ARTIFICAL transfat which is also dangerous in large quanties.Artificial trans fats are one of the most prevalent poisons in our food supply/ There is a pile of evidence linking artificial trans fats with heart disease just like smoking is related to lung cancer, mouth cancer, heart disease, heart attacks and so much more.

[JayFL459]

I see no problem with bars that allow smoking .. Are plenty you can go to that don't .. Was Born in FL and the last thing need to hear is about how things are done in Cal or NY .. Is the only place left a smoker can socialize anymore ..

[jdoty]

Originally Posted by cheerbaby112

Thats like trying to say the health department cant tell a restaurant/bar owner that they need to wash their hands, dishes, etc.. Its the same thing. This is a health issue. Because you want to smoke doesnt mean we need to be subjected to it.


No, Hookah Bars and Cigar Bars you know there is going to be smoking. However if you are new to the area or are trying something new for the first time you arent sure which bar/club/restaurant has smoking and which one doesnt. Thats what makes it a health issue if you already have a compromised immune system. You wont see someone pregnant or someone with asthma/copd going to a hookah or cigar bar. Multiple reports show that smoking and second-hand smoke cause immediate damage to the heat and lungs Second-hand smoke kills more than 600000 people each year.


By the way the trans fat ban in NYC is only ARTIFICAL transfat which is also dangerous in large quanties.Artificial trans fats are one of the most prevalent poisons in our food supply/ There is a pile of evidence linking artificial trans fats with heart disease just like smoking is related to lung cancer, mouth cancer, heart disease, heart attacks and so much more.

Neither you nor the government is responsible for MY health.

There is a huge difference between banning smoking in bars and requiring sanitary conditions in the kitchen. Primarily, permitting smoking is something the customers are easily aware of. Kitchen sanitation is not. Without regulations, a restaurant with a sanitary and safe kitchen would appear identical to a customer as one with a filthy and unsanitary kitchen.

If someone new to the area is pregnant, has asthma, or (like me) a general dislike for second hand smoke, and they walk in to a bar that allows smoking, there's nothing forcing them to stay. They're free to walk out go someplace else.

Very, very, very few bars in Florida even allow smoking anymore. If a bar gets more than 10% if its revenue from food (i.e. sells any food), it cannot legally allow smoking. Restaurants cannot allow smoking. Since these bars can't serve food, the only reason to go there is to smoke while you drink. As non-smokers, there are plenty of other places for us to go get a drink.

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by JayFL459

I see no problem with bars that allow smoking .. Are plenty you can go to that don't .. Was Born in FL and the last thing need to hear is about how things are done in Cal or NY .. Is the only place left a smoker can socialize anymore ..

Just my two-cents as a non-smoker.

If you want a place to socialize, one word: Vegas! You can smoke just about anywhere there, and the state of Nevada couldn't care less about the above arguments. And really, it shouldn't have to. As far as Nevada is concerned, people knowingly assume the risk of second-hand smoke when they go there, so those arguments about health concerns, while valid on their face, become moot. It's completely a market-based approach. If one casino, bar, etc. disallows smoking, it will lose business for sure. So smoking is permitted (just about) everywhere. That's just the nature of the beast in that state.

Other states, like CA, IL, etc, don't think a smoking ban will cause such dire economic consequences to outweigh the public health risks smoking poses, so they entitle their residents with the right to not have to deal with smoking when they go to social places. The problem is when these people move to other states, they still feel entitled to that right (see the OP).

The point is that while health&safety IS a strong argument against smoking in public places, there may be an even stronger one for it. I wonder if that is what is occurring in Florida, with the amount of tourism that state gets. Though I do think that the tourism argument could be made either for or against a smoking ban. Either way, I don't think it is because Florida is "backwards".

[the old man]

they just passed a no smoking anywhere in South Dakota and now the state has a major league sale tax shortfall-- bars are laying off people- been talk of bars and casinos closing their doors, people losing jobs because no one is going out to eat and havve a few drinks and people catching their dealth of pnemonia(sp) because they have to go outside in -10 below temps to smoke--- what is wrong with people where they do not take responsibility for their own actions and life-- if you don't want to walk into a bar that allows smoking don't walk in, don't spend your money there

all these no smoking laws are doing is to set up discrimination against smokers -my local pub has seperate entrances for nonsmokers and smokers just like there use to be seperate drinking fountains or bathrooms in the 60's --can we say civil rights violations the owner is being forced by law to discriminate

[cheerbaby112]

Originally Posted by jdoty

Neither you nor the government is responsible for MY health.

There is a huge difference between banning smoking in bars and requiring sanitary conditions in the kitchen. Primarily, permitting smoking is something the customers are easily aware of. Kitchen sanitation is not. Without regulations, a restaurant with a sanitary and safe kitchen would appear identical to a customer as one with a filthy and unsanitary kitchen.

If someone new to the area is pregnant, has asthma, or (like me) a general dislike for second hand smoke, and they walk in to a bar that allows smoking, there's nothing forcing them to stay. They're free to walk out go someplace else.

Very, very, very few bars in Florida even allow smoking anymore. If a bar gets more than 10% if its revenue from food (i.e. sells any food), it cannot legally allow smoking. Restaurants cannot allow smoking. Since these bars can't serve food, the only reason to go there is to smoke while you drink. As non-smokers, there are plenty of other places for us to go get a drink.

Have you ever heard of third hand smoke? Nicotine sticks to EVERYTHING, the glass your going to take a drink out of, the table you smoked at, the clothing you wear, your hair. That make their bar/kitchen unsanitary. You also cant just walk out of a bar and think that no damage has been done. If you can smell tobacco smoke even if you can't see it you're still breathing in toxins and carrying those toxins on your body, including more than 60 known carcinogens. Its just not that simple to not breath it in.

[the old man]

now to top that off I watched on a local tv station that non smokers are bitching about smokers congregating outside smoking and they have to walk by them this is what I would call a bunch of horse doodoo