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Macguy, that was very good, and insightful. It is true, the person has to want to do it. So I guess I won't get my husband to give up steak?-lol
sunny
Certainly not worth fighting over, I would not bug him about it. If your a good vegetarian cook he will forget the meat is even there. He will be diving into those veggi casseroles like there is no tomorrow. Not much you can do about the McDonolds drive through though.
OK - I just have to jump in on this one.
Just as a note - I have owned dogs (mixes mostly), but not presently due to my living situation - but once we move into our home, we will be adding a dog to our family.
I don't think that macguy is saying that a dog is nothing - He is just placing more value on a child than a dog. Which I believe that anyone (except msjbrent) would do. I agree with macguy - If a dog bites for whatever reason - it shows that the dog is capeable of aggression and most dogs that bite, will do so again.
msjbrent - I believe that you have some serious issues. Your uncalled for rant on children shows some instabilities on your part. Not a fan of kids - no problem, but you are showing something different. And as a parent I take offense. YES, I DO agree that it is a parent's responsibility to teach thier children care and respect for animals. It is our responsinility to make sure that (in learning to grow up) that we make sure that or kids are not pulling tails and poking at eyes. I take a very preventative stand when my children are around animals - if they are familiar with them or not.
I think everone has lost site of this discussion. If a child is antagonizing and hurting an animal and the animal retaliates (sp), no, you don't run to the pound and gas em' - However, if (and be honest, don't say it NEVER happens) a dog attacks a child (or anyone for that matter) with no provocation - yea, I agree, that dog should be put down. Pitt or Golden! BUT - you don't hear of any Golden Retrievers mauling anyone do you??
Fact of the matter is this - I am moving into a brand new community and don't know any of my neighbors yet. You can be damn sure I will feel alot more comfortable finding out that my neighbor has a cocker spaniel than a Pitt.
I just have one question - What would you do if your child was bitten on the face and scarred (or worse) by your precious Pitt? Would you feel comfortable leaving them alone together again?
Dear Minniemom,
Actually, Yes my bestfriend was attacked by a Golden Retriever When she was young. This dog had never bitten anyone before but unprovoked it did attack her. She is afraid of large dogs and has been ever since.
Also, Thought that you would like to know Cocker Spaniels were rated number one for attacks on their owners or the children they resided with in Arizona 1989. However Because most did not require emergency care they were not reported
here is a exerpt from Dog Bite Law site, It can be accessed through http://www.dogbitelaw.com : (Read the Whole Chapter on Why dogs bite people), here is a portion of the text
"Under principles of Common Law there is the assumption that dogs are harmless unless they have previously demonstrated a vicious propensity. This often leads to the related assumption that victims of dog attack have provoked or otherwise precipitated the attack. However, those studies which have attempted to document the context in which an attack has occurred generally show that bite victims are rarely engaging in activity that could legally be considered provocation (i.e., causing physical injury to the animal). In the non-fatal bites surveyed by Beck et al. (1975), the victims had no interaction with the dog, or were walking or sitting in 75% of the cases. In 9.6% the victim was playing with the dog and in only 6.5% could the victim's behavior be classified as provocative. (Lockwood, The Ethology and Epidemiology of Canine Aggression, in James Serpell (ed.) The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behavior & Interactions with People, (Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge Univ. Press), pp. 132-138.)"
This is also a Story From this same site these are actual statistics:
"The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)" http://www.dogbitelaw.com . Accessed March 12 2007
So, The Point is Pit bulls are only bad because attacks from them happen more often. And again if you read this site you will find that the animals parentage is first on the list of "why dogs bite"
Here is another Exerpt From this same site, http://www.dogbitelaw.com . Accessed March 12 2007. You can find the whole text under this title: "Canine homicides and the dog bite epidemic: do not confuse them"
"As a practical matter, the current tide of public outrage should be focused on the enactment of measures that would deal effectively with the entire epidemic, not merely the breeds that kill. It would be unwise to enact all kinds of controls on one or two breeds, not necessarily because it would be unfair, but because it would produce narrow and therefore unsatisfactory results. The war against crime isn't a war against just the bank robbers, but against all criminals; the war against drugs isn't a war against just the Colombian drug lords, but all drug lords. For the same reason, the dog bite epidemic must not focus on just one or two breeds and stop there. The war on this epidemic must be comprehensive."
Thought You all might enjoy this information.
Last edited by Wolftraxs; 03-12-2007 at 01:04 AM..
Reason: Forgot to quote source
I love food.. I just can't eat seafood.. Iodine allergy. I am a meat lover though. I love animals and I make sure what I eat is free range even my eggs because I don't believe any thing should be mistreated even if it is going to be food for another. I also try to eat meat that is organic if I can find it..
Being part Native I prefer Buffalo..lol But you have to Special order it.. And the Buffalo meat from my past supplier is no longer available as the man was killed by one of his older buffalo. Wonder if his insurance went up?
But no matter how domestic animals become they still started off wild and although you can take the animal out of the wild you just cant take the Wild out of the Animal. The Key is to Respect them. I have a friend that has two pit bulls, One always looks like he is going to bite me.. I tell him everytime "Hi Rebel please don't bite me today because I would hate to have to kill you." Just to let you know if you are ever going to be bitten let them bite the arm that you use less often then with your knuckles HIT THEM AS HARD AS YOU CAN ACCROSS THE BRIDGE OF THE NOSE You don't have a powerful hit use anything hard and available. collapsing the sinus cavity. THAT is how they breath if they can't breath they will let go. However, they could possible die from it. If it is a pit and he dies you may have to break the jaw to get your arm out. But at least you will be alive and less damaged then other statistics. My step father used to train police attack dogs, he taught me this when I was 8. Even taught me how to tell if a dog is going to bite you by looking at his body language. WHAT EVER YOU DO DON'T Panic!! JUST like with anyother agressive animal it send them into a frenzy.
Actually here is a good link for anyone who has children and are trying to help them stay safe from strange animals. Also tell your children Never to stare in the eye's of any dog as this is their language for a challenge. http://www.toledohumanesociety.com/t...subj=education,
I am not saying that other dogs DONT attack, I am just saying that it is alot less probable and that they are more likely to do less harm if they do. Not saying that it dosn't happen though.
But thanks for blowing my argument out of the water! LOL.
LOL!! Sorry, I was just trying to show that it doesn't come down to breed it is just the unpredictability of animals in general. Pittbulls do account for 1110of dog attacks. More then any other dog but I think it would be unfair to speculate that that is more then any other dog because we really don't have a percentage of dogs per breed to compare to... For instance If there are over lets just say for example 7,000 pitt bulls the percentage of attacks are only 14% Now you and I both know there are way more then 7,000 pit bulls in the us. Shoot I think here in Florida there are at least that..lol All I believe is unless you get a good Reading on what type of dogs there are and how many all together there are you can not make a good decision on whether the breed is bad.. For instance if there were only 6 golden retrievers throughout the U.S and 5 of them had been involved in dog attacks then that would be over 99% of all Golden Retrievers in the U.S. So unless Sufficient data or census is gather on the ammount of dog attacks per breed and how many per breed there are In total it would be irrelevant to count any data on just attacks alone or base a decision on it. I personally still think that Humans are far worse then animals. I mean all together the amount of Dog attacks on Humans in total was 2,209 only 264 resulted in deaths from Sept. 1982 to November 2006 (that is 24 years). Those statistics were as I said unfair as we do not have a total on the exact number of each breed of these dogs in the reports But what we do have is the exact number of Violent crimes by Humans from 1998 till 2002 ( only 5 years) was listed at 32 Million 1 Hundred 63 Thousand 8 hundred and 70 (32,163,870.00) Stats for humans is alot more detailded and precise (way more in less time). I think I am in the animals corner. Considering the odds of getting beaten or attacked by a human is way more likely then a dog of any breed attacking. Now, these Statistics are why people own "bully Breeds" It is what they need to feel safe that is what these dogs are bred for. But I am sure mishandling or ignorance of training has alot to do with why dogs attack.
When my step-father had taught me to train attack dogs, He stated, "any dog will bite, But an attack trained dog will only do it when told. If the trainer does it correctly that is". I had a dog that was old english sheep dog and Rat Terrier (don't ask how We think Sire was on his knee's) I attack trained him and He was the best dog I have ever had. He would do exactally what I told him to do and never faultered. When I told him to sit and stay he would stay in that spot all day sitting, When we went for walks I would throw his leash in a corner and he would sit on it till I came back. Never moving from it. Even an old man one day from a store told me that his dog walked by my dog barking and leaning on his leash and my dog did not budge.
Have I found another one like him? No. It takes a very special dog to train that well.
I have a friend also that raised over 60 pitt bulls for hog hunting and she explained to me that not one of those animals was aggressive towards each other or had ever bitten anyone and she used selective breeding. She stated, "Out of all her dogs she only had two puppies that needed to be put down as they Were Very large and stayed too long in the birth process and ended up being too agressive she had them put down". As she said, "She was BEING A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER!!" and that is the way all people should be with breeding Choose good genetics for breeding and asses the risk and take responsability. Also, remember not to trust your good breeding with bad caretakers or owners.
BTW. Stats on Golden Retriever was 6 total attacks all 6 were directed at children 1 resulted in death and 4 resulted in maimings. In the report it states that one of these attacks was a result of rabies and the other was accidental as the dog had tugged on the little girls scarf strangling her.
LOL!! Sorry, I was just trying to show that it doesn't come down to breed it is just the unpredictability of animals in general. Pittbulls do account for 1110of dog attacks. More then any other dog but I think it would be unfair to speculate that that is more then any other dog because we really don't have a percentage of dogs per breed to compare to... For instance If there are over lets just say for example 7,000 pitt bulls the percentage of attacks are only 14% Now you and I both know there are way more then 7,000 pit bulls in the us. Shoot I think here in Florida there are at least that..lol All I believe is unless you get a good Reading on what type of dogs there are and how many all together there are you can not make a good decision on whether the breed is bad.. For instance if there were only 6 golden retrievers throughout the U.S and 5 of them had been involved in dog attacks then that would be over 99% of all Golden Retrievers in the U.S. So unless Sufficient data or census is gather on the ammount of dog attacks per breed and how many per breed there are In total it would be irrelevant to count any data on just attacks alone or base a decision on it. I personally still think that Humans are far worse then animals. I mean all together the amount of Dog attacks on Humans in total was 2,209 only 264 resulted in deaths from Sept. 1982 to November 2006 (that is 24 years). Those statistics were as I said unfair as we do not have a total on the exact number of each breed of these dogs in the reports But what we do have is the exact number of Violent crimes by Humans from 1998 till 2002 ( only 5 years) was listed at 32 Million 1 Hundred 63 Thousand 8 hundred and 70 (32,163,870.00) Stats for humans is alot more detailded and precise (way more in less time). I think I am in the animals corner. Considering the odds of getting beaten or attacked by a human is way more likely then a dog of any breed attacking. Now, these Statistics are why people own "bully Breeds" It is what they need to feel safe that is what these dogs are bred for. But I am sure mishandling or ignorance of training has alot to do with why dogs attack.
When my step-father had taught me to train attack dogs, He stated, "any dog will bite, But an attack trained dog will only do it when told. If the trainer does it correctly that is". I had a dog that was old english sheep dog and Rat Terrier (don't ask how We think Sire was on his knee's) I attack trained him and He was the best dog I have ever had. He would do exactally what I told him to do and never faultered. When I told him to sit and stay he would stay in that spot all day sitting, When we went for walks I would throw his leash in a corner and he would sit on it till I came back. Never moving from it. Even an old man one day from a store told me that his dog walked by my dog barking and leaning on his leash and my dog did not budge.
Have I found another one like him? No. It takes a very special dog to train that well.
I have a friend also that raised over 60 pitt bulls for hog hunting and she explained to me that not one of those animals was aggressive towards each other or had ever bitten anyone and she used selective breeding. She stated, "Out of all her dogs she only had two puppies that needed to be put down as they Were Very large and stayed too long in the birth process and ended up being too agressive she had them put down". As she said, "She was BEING A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER!!" and that is the way all people should be with breeding Choose good genetics for breeding and asses the risk and take responsability. Also, remember not to trust your good breeding with bad caretakers or owners.
BTW. Stats on Golden Retriever was 6 total attacks all 6 were directed at children 1 resulted in death and 4 resulted in maimings. In the report it states that one of these attacks was a result of rabies and the other was accidental as the dog had tugged on the little girls scarf strangling her.
Wolftraxs,
Good post. Lots of info!!!
I am familiar with the Golden/scarf incident. The little girl played everyday with her golden in the backyard after school. While they were playing, he did tug on her scarf and strangle her. It was a freak accident.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
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I was wondering.... what do you all think about seeing-eye dogs? They are usually trained for this job starting at a very young age, but not always. Blind and visually handicapped people put their lives in the hands (paws) of these animals. They can be purebreed or mixed. Trainers can usually tell which ones will respond appropriately. But have you thought about how these dogs cross busy intersections, have to deal with cars, bikes, crazy pedestrians, bad weather, get on public transportation, get shoved, pushed and stepped on, yet their "master" is the only thing that matters and these dogs will put up with anything that comes their way.
I think they are just amazing. They must be when we have to put all our trust in them.
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