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Old 10-27-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 12,517,455 times
Reputation: 4055

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I hate to keep taking the bait...but ok let's keep going...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDBaumgardner View Post
The primary reason that Cleveland has continued to bleed population is mainly because it was always an industrial powerhouse type of city that had a reliance upon factories ... then when the economy began to change dramatically and companies began shifting more towards the high tech industry, Cleveland had a later start ... with a "transitional phase" away from heavy industry.

The result ... people were unable to locate sustainable employment and thus was the beginning of a mass exodus of population away from Cleveland. To be accurate, there were also racial tensions in the 1960s that also created what has been referred to as "white flight", where caucasians abandoned the inner city and escaped to the surrounding suburbs, as has been witnessed in other large cities such as Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia.
I can totally understand this. The decline of factories in the Midwest was extremely tough on that region's cities. White flight was felt all across the nation, even in invincible New York City for a short period. Race riots plagued a great deal of the major cities in the country.

I have no problem with the loss of city proper population. The only problem is that total population loss, though slowing, is still happening.

Quote:
The Cleveland of "today" is dramatically different from what it was 30, 10, 5 and even 3 years ago ... the population "has now begun to stabilize" and the city and region are experiencing a healthy building boom ... major construction projects are changing the landscape of our proud city. Cleveland is also a major leader in the emerging field of biosciences ...
But that's the thing...Cleveland is not a major leader in BioSciences. First off, the term "BioScience" is just another way of saying Life Science. I've shown the Milken Institute report on Life Science clusters in the country...and Cleveland does not rank in the Top 11. I think it's fair to say the Top 10 or so deserve to be called "major".

Not to mention that Cleveland's role in medical research may be diminishing relative to other cities. According to this report by Cleveland.com, NIH (National Institutes of Health) funding has decreased greatly in recent years. In 2008, the city of Cleveland received $232.3 million in NIH funding. Comparatively, Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston each received $303.5 million and $254.5 million in 2008.

Quote:
Cleveland
Quote:
can "very much" stand in good company with the likes of New York City, Chicago or Philadelphia ...

We have museums that are secondary to none, top knotch medical institutions that are world renowned ...
The Cleveland Clinic alone can stand up to pretty much any single hospital. Cleveland's arts & museums stand up very well against most. But overall they stand nowhere near NYC, Chicago or Philadelphia.

Quote:
and spacious, opulent suburbs, some of which could make the residents of Beverly Hills or Westchester "green with envy"
Errrr...something tells me the people living in Beverly Hills/Bel Air or Greenwich/Rye aren't clamoring to live in Ohio...if they were, they would rent out the carriage house in their back yard and buy the largest property in the state haha.

Quote:
As I experience my city, it is baffling to me that more people have no concept ... or any abiding appreciation of such an amazing "World Class City"
What's baffling to me is that since Cleveland has a large performing arts district, you all of a sudden consider it to be "world class".

It is absolutely not a world class city. Good city? Sure. World class? Lol.

Last edited by tmac9wr; 10-27-2010 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,372 posts, read 2,796,739 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
I hate to keep taking the bait...but ok let's keep going...



I can totally understand this. The decline of factories in the Midwest was extremely tough on that region's cities. White flight was felt all across the nation, even in invincible New York City for a short period. Race riots plagued a great deal of the major cities in the country.

I have no problem with the loss of city proper population. The only problem is that total population loss, though slowing, is still happening.



[/b]But that's the thing...Cleveland is not a major leader in BioSciences. First off, the term "BioScience" is just another way of saying Life Science. I've shown the Milken Institute report on Life Science clusters in the country...and Cleveland does not rank in the Top 11. I think it's fair to say the Top 10 or so deserve to be called "major".

Not to mention that Cleveland's role in medical research may be diminishing relative to other cities. According to this report by Cleveland.com, NIH (National Institutes of Health) funding has decreased greatly in recent years. In 2008, the city of Cleveland received $232.3 million in NIH funding. Comparatively, Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston each received $303.5 million and $254.5 million in 2008.



The Cleveland Clinic alone can stand up to pretty much any single hospital. Cleveland's arts & museums can stand up very well against most. But overall they stand nowhere near NYC, Chicago or Philadelphia.



Errrr...something tells me the people living in Beverly Hills/Bel Air or Greenwich/Rye aren't clamoring to live in Ohio.



What's baffling to me is that since Cleveland has a large performing arts district, you all of a sudden consider it to be "world class".

It is absolutely not a world class city. Good city? Sure. World class? Lol.

This thread pertains to "the best cities for medicine", in which Cleveland is certainly a strong condender. It seems as if you're moving in a direction to create this as a "Boston VS Cleveland" thread ... which it isn't.

You're final statement above concerning Cleveland is "yours alone" and is completely asinine, devoid of any merit and is frankly, quite predictable.

Your opinion is yours alone, Cleveland is very much indeed a "World Class City" ... your opinions are NOT universally held. Most people recognize Cleveland for it's immense strengths and it's continued importance on a world stage.


Concerning "our museums" ... you're so wrong "again"



CLEVELAND MUSEUM OF ART & WADE LAGOON - "WORLD CLASS STATURE"





Cleveland Museum of Art is "internationally recognized as one of the very best" ... it certainly holds up to it's counterparts in NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston

While people may not be "clamoring" to live in our spacious and opulent suburbs, that was not the point I was conveying ... Some of our affluent suburbs "outshine" the likes of Beverly Hills, Westchester ... and even Greenwhich.

You've probably never even heard of our numerous wealthy enclaves ...

Bratenahl, Hunting Valley, Pepper Pike, Moreland Hills, Chagrin Falls, Orange Village, Shaker Heights, Gates Mills, Waite Hill ... Westlake, Bay Village and several more ... these enclaves are distinct, beautiful and can stand up to the stature of Greenwhich, Westchester and Beverly Hills on any day.

And yes, Cleveland is still a leader in biosciences ... we've gone over this before ...



A video to illustrate the "trials and triumphs" happening in Cleveland "right now"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTBWCgtoWCo

Last edited by JohnDBaumgardner; 10-27-2010 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:57 AM
 
976 posts, read 1,882,507 times
Reputation: 606
as on onlooker, i think this thread has been terribly diluted. it is valid to call into question whether or not cleveland can be considered world class (at one time it definitely was), but it is undoubtedly one of the best cities in the nation for medicine. the cleveland clinic is one of the finest institutions of its kind in the world.
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Denver
6,628 posts, read 12,517,455 times
Reputation: 4055
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDBaumgardner View Post
This thread pertains to "the best cities for medicine", in which Cleveland is certainly a strong condender. It seems as if you're moving in a direction to create this as a "Boston VS Cleveland" thread ... which it isn't.
I have no desire whatsoever to turn this into Boston vs. Cleveland. The only reason why I mentioned those Hospitals in Boston is because 1. On the report which I showed, Boston is listed as the #1 life sciences center in the United States, and 2. Because Boston receives the most NIH funding in the country.

I admit that I have been mentioning things outside of medicine, but that's because in literally every post you make about Cleveland you mention the "renaissance" of culture, amenities, etc (as you did in this thread).

I will do my best to keep this about medicine after this post.

Quote:
You're final statement above concerning Cleveland is "yours alone" and is completely asinine, devoid of any merit and is frankly, quite predictable.
Which statement? That Cleveland is not a world class city? To you and the other members of the Cleveland Tourism Bureau it may seem asinine, but perhaps you should think about how the world views the city. My statement may be "quite predictable", but you should predict that most everyone who isn't from Cleveland probably feels the same way as I do.

Quote:
Your opinion is yours alone, Cleveland is very much indeed a "World Class City" ... your opinions are NOT universally held.
Quote:
Most people recognize Cleveland for it's immense strengths and it's continued importance on a world stage.
My opinion that Cleveland is not a world-class city may not be universally held, but not much is. I would be willing to bet a majority of people would not consider Cleveland to be world-class. Don't take it as an insult, because it certainly isn't meant to be. There have been several arguments on this forum regarding whether or not Boston, Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, and other similar cities should be considered world-class. While Cleveland may be able to compete with these cities from a cultural standpoint, it is certainly outpaced by them in terms of economic contributions, etc. That is not an opinion, that is fact.


Quote:
Concerning "our museums" ... you're so wrong "again"
Quote:

CLEVELAND MUSEUM OF ART & WADE LAGOON - "WORLD CLASS STATURE"

Cleveland Museum of Art is "internationally recognized as one of the very best" ... it certainly holds up to it's counterparts in NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston
You misinterpreted what I meant, and I admit that's in large part to how I typed my response there. I meant as an overall city, Cleveland cannot match up with Chicago, New York City, or Philadelphia. This is in regards to economic contributions, universities, etc. Again, this isn't an insult to Cleveland. These cities are just much larger.

Quote:
While people may not be "clamoring" to live in our spacious and opulent suburbs, that was not the point I was conveying ...
Quote:
Some of our affluent suburbs "outshine" the likes of Beverly Hills, Westchester ... and even Greenwhich.

You've probably never even heard of our numerous wealthy enclaves ...

Bratenahl, Hunting Valley, Pepper Pike, Moreland Hills, Chagrin Falls, Orange Village, Shaker Heights, Gates Mills, Waite Hill ... Westlake, Bay Village and several more ... these enclaves are distinct, beautiful and can stand up to the stature of Greenwhich, Westchester and Beverly Hills on any day.
I'm not denying that there are beautiful areas around Cleveland. Every time I say something that would suggest a city like New York City or Los Angeles outshines Cleveland, you interpret that as me dragging the city through the mud. It's not an insult to Cleveland whatsoever to suggest that Cleveland's suburbs don't have the same stature of Fairfield County/Westchester County or Beverly Hills. You're comparing yourself to some of the most powerful suburbs on the planet! There's no shame in admitting you're not of the same caliber. There's a reason it's commonplace to see estates in those areas sell for $50+ million.

Quote:
And yes, Cleveland is still a leader in biosciences ... we've gone over this before ...
Yes we have gone over this before. You say Cleveland is a leader in life sciences. I show a study and post statistics that imply it isn't. If you're going to continue to say Cleveland is a leader in this area, then could you please show some statistics which compare it to the other cities which are proven leaders in this area?

As I've said in pretty much every post I've made about Cleveland, the Cleveland Clinic is an amazing institution. I think the main reason Cleveland lags behind other cities in life sciences is because it seems to lack private contributions (biotechnology companies, etc) and elite medical research universities (another ranking).

I feel you're way too sensitive about this subject. I'm not trying to put Cleveland down when I say these things...I'm merely contesting your claim that it should be considered in the same league as many of the other cities you have compared it to.

For the record, I do think Cleveland is a good city for medicine haha.

Last edited by tmac9wr; 10-27-2010 at 01:09 PM..
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,389 posts, read 55,214,514 times
Reputation: 15488
Baumgardner, I think much of what you say is pure delusion, but I really LOVE your tenacity...LOL
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
1,372 posts, read 2,796,739 times
Reputation: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Baumgardner, I think much of what you say is pure delusion, but I really LOVE your tenacity...LOL

I'm glad that you can appreciate my tenacity ... however, I'm far from being delusional concerning Cleveland ...
LOL


Just the facts!
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:57 PM
 
1 posts, read 643 times
Reputation: 10
Default Don't know how to start a thread so...

Scenario: Me: I was recently employed at *blank* in the city of *blank* and I-
Interviewers: STOP RIGHT THERE! Just the fact that you were employed in this CITY is enough for us to totally disregard everything else and hire you right now! Congratulations!

Question: What city, it can be anywhere in the world, would cause this reaction in terms of a career in the medical field and a culinary field respectively?
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,411 posts, read 26,257,968 times
Reputation: 16497
Grand Rapids, MI has some of the best cancer and medical research in the nation
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:41 PM
 
14,752 posts, read 28,642,161 times
Reputation: 8781
Shooting from the hip:
Houston TX (Texas Medical Center), Cleveland OH (Cleveland Clinic), Rochester MN (Mayo Clinic), Pittsburgh PA, Seattle WA

Then, all the major large cities:
New York, Boston (definitely), Philadelphia, Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:15 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,884,781 times
Reputation: 2782
I think Boston has to be a top 3 city in the U.S. all around. You have a bevy of medical institutions: Massachusetts General Hospital (#2 overall), Brigham and Women's Hospital (#8 overall), Beth Israel Deconness Hospital, Children's Hospital Boston (rated in the top 3 for almost every speciality), Joslin Diabetes Center, Dana Farber (#5 for cancer, #1 for children cancer), Tufts New England Medical Center, Mass Eye and Ear Infirmary (#2 for Ear, nose and throat), New England Babtist Hospital, Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital (#5 for rehab), McLean Hospital in nearby Belmont (#3 for psychiatry).

And then you have the large concentration of life sciences companies that are based in Cambridge and up along the 128 belt in Waltham, Bedford, Burlington, etc.
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