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What does it mean to be conservative? What does it mean to be liberal or progressive?...I think most people are a "mixed-bag" when it comes to being conservative (in some areas.) And a little more liberal or progressive-thinking in other areas...For instance I like to preserve older and historic buildings for future generations to enjoy. I'm not exactly an "out with the old" type of person. Or a "new is always better" type of thinker...I'm not one to "jump at things" and "act impulsively." I prefer well-rounded and "well thought out" solutions to problems. (When possible.)...But sometimes change is needed. Sometimes we have to let-go of our "old ways" and create something "new" and "better." (Move out of our "comfort zones" and take a few risks!)...The notion that we are either conservative or liberal just doesn't "ring true" to me. And this is why I always allow myself a lot of "leeway" to go "either way" based on each individual situation in life...I don't want to consider myself "set in stone" or "boxed-in" because this would limit and restrict my freedom and my potential for "growth."...I'm happy being a "mixed-bag." I don't need to label myself "one thing" or "another." And I think we are all born with "free minds" and the ability to "weigh" each situation for ourselves...Sometimes we may take a more "conservative view." (And "fight" to preseve traditions or a "piece" of history for future generations etc.)..But at other times we might be ready and "ripe" for "something new" because we can see (for ourselves) that "change is needed."
Yes. There is evidence, for example, that sociopaths are born with that tendency, thought to be inherited. Which suggests to me that people can be born with different inclinations to be morally and socially conscientious and have concerns one side or the other of the line that separates selfishness from altruism..
Liberals and Conservatives tend to divide themselves up along sociological lines, and a person probably associates with the political philosophy that most closely follows their sense the good of the self vs. the good of the entire community.
If people who call themselves Liberals are at the moment placing heavy emphasis on tolerance for diverse lifestyles, a person pre-wired to be altruistic and sharing and tolerant will probably align himself with the Liberal movement. Conversely, if it is currently in vogue among Conservative orators to favor white Christians who seek wealth and power at the expense of the toiling majority, a person naturally inclined to selfishness might find much in conservatism to appeal to him.
I hasten to add that it has nothing to with definitive Liberal or Conservative ideology, but only with the perception and outward appeal of movements using those labels, as judged by the citizen seeking a dogma consistent with his nature..
And it turns out, even some liberals are admitting that conservatives are actually more charitable than they are. One liberal guy even wrote a book about it:
You've had the wool pulled over your eyes again. First of all, Arthur Brooks is not a liberal. Second of all, his book was written to gain him notoriety and speaking fees on the right-wing talk circuit. His research is abominable. He has to cherry pick his sources, he has to slant his definition of charity (soup kitchens run by churches count, those tun by local governments do not), and he ultimately has to eliminate everyone who identifies as an independent from his populations, since if they are included, there is no statistical difference in charitable giving between liberals and conservatives. They both beat the pants off of independents. Only if independents are thrown away can Brooks (narrowly) arrive at those predetermined conclusions he has to arrive at in order to earn his media appearances and hefty paycheck at the end of the right-wing rainbow.
No. But I do think there is a "think for yourself gene."
By the way, whenever I encounter someone who identifies himself as either liberal or conservative, I involuntarily look for their lobotomy scars. Because both political philosophies have deep, deep problems with them, and anyone who espouses either chooses to live in denial of facts.
It's true. Have you ever noticed that if you poke holes in liberal ideology, they never can defend it with facts? Instead, they say, "Well, the conservatives..."? And vice-versa for the conservatives. Their only arguments are to rebut the other side.
Here's what I would offer. Identifying yourself with either political camp isn't just naive. It's downright cynical or even immoral. Because what you're doing is choosing a solution before you ever know what the problem might be, and trying to apply that solution across an entire spectrum of complex issues to suit a political end.
What's more, I've found that people from either political camp tend to be incredibly poorly informed people. Instead of reading in a catholic manner, learning about all sides of an issue, they instead tend to get their news only from sources that validate their own biases. In that sense, a person who tends to gets his news from the Huffington Post is as big of a knuckle-dragging halfwit as a person who tends to get his news from Fox News. They might be a little more stylish, but they're halfwits nonetheless.
Some people want to be "fair" and take the time to examine every possible "side" to an issue. (They play the "Devil's Advocate" with themselves in other words!)...Why does something that seems so "right" to us seem "wrong" and "way off base" to others?.. I want to examine other peoples' point of view and get a "feel" for what they "want" or "don't want" and "why!"...This is adult-thinking to me. (Pushing myself to look at bigger and bigger "pictures" and more and more "sides" to each issue etc.)...If I pledge my allegiance to one "camp" or one "side" I'll be viewed as a "traitor" if I dare to venture outside "party lines" and "group-think" concerning an issue...To be honest I think our 2-party political system keeps some people stuck in low-level and childlike thinking patterns.. The dogma is handed-out and "party faithfuls" absorb and believe what they are told and don't go much "farther" when it comes to analyzing anything in-depth...And the notion of trying to look at other "sides" seems like a big waste of time. "Why bother?"
Researchers have been able to use magnetic fields to basically turn on or off sections of the brain, and people who have had brain injuries have sometimes spontaneously changed attitudes including religion and political affiliation. I hesitate to say it, but the studies I have read indicated that the trend was for people with damaged brains to become more conservative. I make nothing of that other than the possibility there might be an "overlay" of the brain that when damaged causes the brain to revert.
My observation of kids as I was growing up was that some kids seemed quite set in their views very early on, while others went through various permutations of attitudes and behaviors until they locked into one.
So:
1. are attitudes based on nurture or nature?
2. can they be changed by "boot camps" or other means?
For those of you who can't resist...
3. is one attitude superior to others?
I personally believe people are born wired with a certain mindset that is more of a capacity than one that is set one particular way or the other; sort of like a rough mold of something by which then that person's environment impresses upon it to shape them into something more specific. So it's a mix of nature and nurturing (to be thorough I am strictly speaking of someone's attitude; sexuality I believe is wired into someone and cannot be changed; whether they express that sexuality is what is based on their environment). That covers one.
2-- I suppose it might to some extent, though I do not have a fixed idea on this either way.
3. Not at all, I don't believe either attitude is more superior. I get the feeling society has geared common thought in this trend that liberalism is somehow "more positive" than conservatism and somehow it has become a popular thought that conservatism carries a somewhat "negative" connotation in the minds of many.
Conservatism is simply being closed and unaccepting of certain ideas whereas liberalism is having more of a free-thinking mind and being more *accepting* of thoughts which are different from one's own. One is not more right than the other. I happen to have a mindset that is a mix of both (I would find it hard to believe there are very many who don't). There are many things I am not accepting of. It does not mean I do not understand them (I believe a lot of people have the misconceived idea that not accepting means not understanding). I feel I understand to the best of my ability many of the things I do not accept, I just believe differently than what it is I am not accepting (such as technology; I am very close-minded about that).
I believe much of the tension which exists between conservative people and liberal people is that each feels one is more right than the other; if it would be more understood they are just different ways of thinking, perhaps there would be less contention between the two groups.
Understandably, this is a touchy topic when politics are involved since invariably people's lifestyles may be affected by laws which are enacted and then a liberally-minded person may feel they are unfairly constrained in their ability to live the way they want whereas the conservative-minded person feels differently; nevertheless, one must keep in mind that the foundation of democracy is that majority rules to whatever better or worse effect that may have (as a caveat I am no student of poliltics, nevertheless that is my understanding of it).
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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'Liberal' and 'conservative' are relative terms that are dependant on the socio-cultural norms of the time. In 2012 America it's seen as 'conservative' to be Christian. In Britannia in 200 AD it was conservative to be a pagan and 'liberal' to be Christian. Now things are switching, lol.
There IS one constant, one 'REAL' type of conservatism/liberality. Which is more conventionality vs openness. Those who rank high on openness are more open to embracing changes to the status quo, whatever they may be. This, I believe, is mostly an aspect of inborn personality with some environmental influence. People who are more open, for instance, might be less prone to group-think.
I agree, in the US in particular, these camps 'liberal' and 'conservative' have been manufactured by politicians and the media in order to neatly divide the sheep into two herds.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
No. But I do think there is a "think for yourself gene."
By the way, whenever I encounter someone who identifies himself as either liberal or conservative, I involuntarily look for their lobotomy scars. Because both political philosophies have deep, deep problems with them, and anyone who espouses either chooses to live in denial of facts.
It's true. Have you ever noticed that if you poke holes in liberal ideology, they never can defend it with facts? Instead, they say, "Well, the conservatives..."? And vice-versa for the conservatives. Their only arguments are to rebut the other side.
Here's what I would offer. Identifying yourself with either political camp isn't just naive. It's downright cynical or even immoral. Because what you're doing is choosing a solution before you ever know what the problem might be, and trying to apply that solution across an entire spectrum of complex issues to suit a political end.
What's more, I've found that people from either political camp tend to be incredibly poorly informed people. Instead of reading in a catholic manner, learning about all sides of an issue, they instead tend to get their news only from sources that validate their own biases. In that sense, a person who tends to gets his news from the Huffington Post is as big of a knuckle-dragging halfwit as a person who tends to get his news from Fox News. They might be a little more stylish, but they're halfwits nonetheless.
Exactly. They're terms used to divide, just like throughout history, with no meaningful relationship to how many real people think...or maybe it just shows how we like to 'side' with people, just like back in the playground when kids 'took sides', that's what is happening to people today. Things like religion are used to further divide people, and issues becoming 'liberal' or 'conservative', 'left' or 'right', and not thought through in isolation.
I personally believe people are born wired with a certain mindset that is more of a capacity than one that is set one particular way or the other; sort of like a rough mold of something by which then that person's environment impresses upon it to shape them into something more specific. So it's a mix of nature and nurturing (to be thorough I am strictly speaking of someone's attitude; sexuality I believe is wired into someone and cannot be changed; whether they express that sexuality is what is based on their environment). That covers one.
2-- I suppose it might to some extent, though I do not have a fixed idea on this either way.
3. Not at all, I don't believe either attitude is more superior. I get the feeling society has geared common thought in this trend that liberalism is somehow "more positive" than conservatism and somehow it has become a popular thought that conservatism carries a somewhat "negative" connotation in the minds of many.
Conservatism is simply being closed and unaccepting of certain ideas whereas liberalism is having more of a free-thinking mind and being more *accepting* of thoughts which are different from one's own. One is not more right than the other. I happen to have a mindset that is a mix of both (I would find it hard to believe there are very many who don't). There are many things I am not accepting of. It does not mean I do not understand them (I believe a lot of people have the misconceived idea that not accepting means not understanding). I feel I understand to the best of my ability many of the things I do not accept, I just believe differently than what it is I am not accepting (such as technology; I am very close-minded about that).
I believe much of the tension which exists between conservative people and liberal people is that each feels one is more right than the other; if it would be more understood they are just different ways of thinking, perhaps there would be less contention between the two groups.
Understandably, this is a touchy topic when politics are involved since invariably people's lifestyles may be affected by laws which are enacted and then a liberally-minded person may feel they are unfairly constrained in their ability to live the way they want whereas the conservative-minded person feels differently; nevertheless, one must keep in mind that the foundation of democracy is that majority rules to whatever better or worse effect that may have (as a caveat I am no student of poliltics, nevertheless that is my understanding of it).
I think this is highly self-congratulatory nonsense, and I'm not even a conservative. Both mindsets are highly close-minded, each beginning with a preconceived belief system, followed by only accepting information that already fits with that mindset. In that sense, the vast majority of self-termed liberals are just as limited in their reading and worldview as any paleoconservative. When I engage a self-described liberal in any kind of discussion, I tend to find them extraordinarily ill-informed, at best just having sizable gaps in their knowledge.
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