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I respect you and your opinion purehuman and apologize for taking that tone with you. I'm trying to convince you that there is another way of looking at, by empathy and compassion for others that are suffering and have no way out. No insult intended. I think you may view it as a mortal sin to help another leave this world - I look at it as aiding them into another plane of existence, and easing their suffering in this one. I truly think God would look upon that favorably. Just my opinion. This is an emotional topic.
No apologizes from you necessary claudhopper, not at all, it is an emotional topic, and I always enjoy hearing your opinions.
I can't debate with you Annie53, because you're completely wrong if you believe that I am trying to force anyone to do anything..I most certainly do not want to insert myself into others lives and make decisions for them,...Unlike you, I do NOT feel that what I want or believe trumps anyone elses wants or beliefs, but since I've upset you so much that you've decided to catagorize me into "people like you", it would probably be best for me to drop out....I still am "personally" against doctor assisted suicides, not suicides , but doctor assisted suicides.That is my final answer to the OPs question, sorry you don't like it, sorry you don't agree, that's my opinion, no better nor worse than yours.
You can't debate because you can't defend your position.....keeping assisted suicide illegal......just because some people may not like it. Which, despite your claims, is involving yourself in other's end of life decisions.
My position does not force my beliefs on anyone. My position is to let each individual and the doctors that help them make their own decisions. My position does not stop anyone from deciding to live as long as possible......that too.....is their own, individual decision.
I want the laws changed so individuals can make their own end of life decisions.....that is hardly imposing my beliefs on anyone. If you don't believe is assisted suicide.....don't avail yourself of it.....no one is going to force you. You, however, feel that others should not be able to avail themselves of assisted suicide.....because YOU don't believe in it. That is interference.....no matter what spin you try to put on it.
You just don't want to answer my question.
Why should the fact that you, or anyone else, doesn't believe in assisted suicide.....prevent others who do beleive in it, from being free to legally have that option? What is your reasoning?
When you take your own life, it is suicide.... When someone else takes it, it's murder.
Yet we readily make legal excuses for murder, such as justifiable homicide, when someone kills another in self defense.
This is even more justifiable, as the victim is giving willing consent to being murdered, and the suspect also giving willing consent to perform said murder.
Would you rather have me walk in front of a speeding car? That would be my personal suicide but I'm forcing someone else to kill me rather than getting their acceptance.
You can't debate because you can't defend your position.....keeping assisted suicide illegal......just because some people may not like it. Which, despite your claims, is involving yourself in other's end of life decisions.
My position does not force my beliefs on anyone. My position is to let each individual and the doctors that help them make their own decisions. My position does not stop anyone from deciding to live as long as possible......that too.....is their own, individual decision.
I want the laws changed so individuals can make their own end of life decisions.....that is hardly imposing my beliefs on anyone. If you don't believe is assisted suicide.....don't avail yourself of it.....no one is going to force you. You, however, feel that others should not be able to avail themselves of assisted suicide.....because YOU don't believe in it. That is interference.....no matter what spin you try to put on it.
You just don't want to answer my question.
Why should the fact that you, or anyone else, doesn't believe in assisted suicide.....prevent others who do beleive in it, from being free to legally have that option? What is your reasoning?
My position Annie53 is this: Elder abuse is rampant, and all too ofter perpetrated by those closest to the victim. Victims are usually, and frequently unwilling to complain about the abuse because they`re embarrassed or fearful. Legalized assisted suicide invites the ultimate elder abuse....and that is my fear...not just for the elderly but also for the disabled............Over 30% of Euthanasia Cases in Belgian Region Did Not Give Consent: Study
That is my answer to your question Annie53...can you understand a little of what I'm saying?..Do you think my fear is completely irrational?
I fully support assisted suicide. I also don't think there should be any banned reasons. If someone wants to die, no matter the reason, they should be able to. This includes the mentally ill, terminally ill, and inmates. Your life is yours alone, and no one sbould be able to force you to live.
My position Annie53 is this: Elder abuse is rampant, and all too ofter perpetrated by those closest to the victim. Victims are usually, and frequently unwilling to complain about the abuse because they`re embarrassed or fearful. Legalized assisted suicide invites the ultimate elder abuse....and that is my fear...not just for the elderly but also for the disabled............Over 30% of Euthanasia Cases in Belgian Region Did Not Give Consent: Study
Unfortunately, fortunately?, we can't speak with the dead, so in these cases in both Belgium and the Netherlands, where a Doctor can terminate a terminally/mentally ill person without their consent, we can only make gueses. Perhaps a number of them are ever so greatful someone made the decision for them!
Working in a Long-Term Care facility I've seen the most pitiful cases of those "desiring" to hang on no matter what shape they're in. And I blame the family to a some extent, for prolonging their lives.
And the I-want-to-live-long-enough-to excuses you hear:
"I want to live long enough to see my grandson get married next year!" (And scare everybody away? and then? wishing to live long enough to see the great-grandkids and great-great grandkiddo's?)
"I want to live long enough to see who becomes the next President!" (Are you sure about that? It may trigger another heart attack!)
"I want to live long enough to see if they come up with a cure for me!" (Alright! You're 85 now, suffering from emphysema and you don't get tired of those panic attacks where you think you're going to die any second?"
You rarely run into anyone in these facilities where they worry, for one minute, the water isn't going to keep flowing from the Medicaid/Medicare faucets. They believe the supply is infinite!
Of course, as the water continues to flow from the faucets, and it's all about job security, profits for the conglomerates with tons of money to lobby the government, they're not about to employ any Death Counselors in these facilities which are greatly needed!
Where oh where did I read it, which first shocked me, but more and more makes more sense to me: Death is the greatest gift you'll receive on this planet!
I can't debate with you Annie53, because you're completely wrong if you believe that I am trying to force anyone to do anything..I most certainly do not want to insert myself into others lives and make decisions for them,...Unlike you, I do NOT feel that what I want or believe trumps anyone else wants or beliefs, but since I've upset you so much that you've decided to categorize me into "people like you", it would probably be best for me to drop out....I still am "personally" against doctor assisted suicides, not suicides , but doctor assisted suicides.That is my final answer to the OOPs question, sorry you don't like it, sorry you don't agree, that's my opinion, no better nor worse than yours.
I would like you to please define "doctor assisted suicides." The reason I am asking you this is because I am wondering if you are referring to the act of a doctor literally coming to a person's bedside as in the case of Dr Kevorkian and administering drugs? Or simply a doctor giving a patient the wherewithal to administer the means to self administer the method of suicide?
I am another Oregonian so I live in a state with the Death with Dignity act. If I haven't posted here before and I don't believe I have, I wanted to say that I know of two people who have availed themselves of this procedure. They were in end stage Cancer and knew they were going to die. They availed themselves of the Death With Dignity Act which consisted of a doctor, psychiatrist and social worker talking to them and then agreeing they could be given the drugs to take home to use when they saw fit.
It was entirely up to the patient as to when to use the drugs. No doctor would be there to administer them. The patient could take the drugs with the family around them or when alone or make a party or do it whenever they wanted. The nurse and social worker would visit to help them in whatever they needed for however long they needed. They could change their mind. It was entirely up to them.
One thing one of the visiting nurse said was that out of all the people who choose this route, many pass away before they get a chance to use the drugs. The very fact that they have them on hand and know that when the pain and suffering become too great they have a way out is a powerful comfort for them. It actually enables them to hold on a little bit longer and most simple die of natural causes and don't need the drugs after all.
That is what happened to the two people I knew who had signed up for assisted suicide. One was a former neighbor. The other a dear friend. The friend died just a day after they moved her into a hospice. She had been taken there from her home in great pain but she told me she was okay, she had her "death" pills as she called them and she could bear it a little longer. I spent the day with her in the hospice holding her hand and chatting. She never had to take her death pills because she died peacefully in her sleep that night with only the painkillers she was given there.
A lot of people have a lot of misconception as to how assisted suicide works. I have seen it first hand and I am 1000% in favor of it.
Unfortunately, fortunately?, we can't speak with the dead, so in these cases in both Belgium and the Netherlands, where a Doctor can terminate a terminally/mentally ill person without their consent, we can only make gueses. Perhaps a number of them are ever so greatful someone made the decision for them!
Working in a Long-Term Care facility I've seen the most pitiful cases of those "desiring" to hang on no matter what shape they're in. And I blame the family to a some extent, for prolonging their lives.
And the I-want-to-live-long-enough-to excuses you hear:
"I want to live long enough to see my grandson get married next year!" (And scare everybody away? and then? wishing to live long enough to see the great-grandkids and great-great grandkiddo's?)
"I want to live long enough to see who becomes the next President!" (Are you sure about that? It may trigger another heart attack!)
"I want to live long enough to see if they come up with a cure for me!" (Alright! You're 85 now, suffering from emphysema and you don't get tired of those panic attacks where you think you're going to die any second?"
You rarely run into anyone in these facilities where they worry, for one minute, the water isn't going to keep flowing from the Medicaid/Medicare faucets. They believe the supply is infinite!
Of course, as the water continues to flow from the faucets, and it's all about job security, profits for the conglomerates with tons of money to lobby the government, they're not about to employ any Death Counselors in these facilities which are greatly needed!
Where oh where did I read it, which first shocked me, but more and more makes more sense to me: Death is the greatest gift you'll receive on this planet!
Perhaps "some" of them are...what about the "some" of them that aren't? Do they not count because they're old or crippled or diseased?.How sad that you see those "desiring to hang on" as pitiful, and their "excuses" (as you call them),... might not be that, but a real desire to live.
When you take your own life, it is suicide.... When someone else takes it, it's murder.
It's NOT murder. You really need to look that word up.
Murder is the taking the life of someone against their will. You know... they don't want to give it up. Kind of like theft. You can't be accused of stealling my TV if I'm asking your to take it, now can you?
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