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Can you tell me WHY the Constitution requires a seperation of church and state, or why the First Ammendment grants a RIGHT to freedom of religion?
So ya actually are so naive that ya believe that the American Government isn't (greatly) influenced by (rich) Christian lobbyists?
Only because of these (rich) Christian lobbyists did Dubya became president of the US.
And I'm sure that if Dubya or Obama had professed to be an atheist they never would've been president of the US.
Like the Bible your constitution looks good on paper, unfortunately it hardly means anything in real life. I guess American patriots regard their constitution the same way Christians look upon their Bible; as infallible.
Washington D.C. didn't simply prohibit firearms ownership by felons or the criminally insane, they refused to allow decent law-abiding citizens the ability to legally own a handgun or even keep a ready-to-use shotgun in their home.
The Supreme Court struck that crap down. What part of that is unclear?
This is really tiring. Have you even read the decision? The Court ruled that the district's prohibition of storing loaded guns in the home was overly restrictive. They didn't come close ruling that the District could not regulate the possession of guns outside the home.
same old crap. rl can't even answer questions, and now that tricky is back, i notice the conversation has gone off on religious tangents, slavery tangents, and next, probably mary jane tangents.
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker Yep because many (white?) Americans still make a big issue out of it.
FYI a black president living in the White House would’ve been impossible 25 years earlier.
So was the idea of a free Holland when your socialist thuggo friends, the Nazis, held sway in your country. Things change; people's thinking, for the most part, with obvious exceptions, change with historical advances.
Of course some combative types just like to fight for the sake of it, even when it's off topic.
In our country, we welcome open discussion, even political infighting and rancor, as part of the process of governmental improvement. That's backed up with our ability to effectively resist tyranny.
Open political discussion, in a lot of socialist (commie?) countries will land you in a "re-education camp". Like that idea, folks? Move to Holland!
LoL, ya are still ignorant are ya?
Being armed does not repel invaders, look at Afghanistan.
Ya still insist that guns will automatically repel an invasion?
LoL, I’m not defending any country, especially slavers.
I guess ya aren’t aware that slavery is slavery.
Ya Ya Ya Ya Ya Ya. . "Ya" like singing, TD?
Originally Posted by NVplumber: You simply assume that criminals don't have a clue how guns work or that they are ignorant enough to stand out in plain sight?
But I guess this is the reason why so many Americans are for the right to carrying guns; Americans keep forgetting (or is it denying?) that guns also cause a plethora of problems.
Freedom often does, but in the end, on balance, it's so much better than the alternates you espouse, TD. BTW, they also prevent many problems.
Rest assured that if the American government ever turned against its own people gun-carrying citizens won't pose a problem to their military toys of destruction. Heck, I'll bet the military will waterboard the American anti-government rebel 'terrorists' to get info so they can bomb these anti-government rebels out of existence.
The only reason why Americans can carry arms is because it is tradition, but tradition is a stupid reason to make it a law.
What tradition will be passed as a law next? Female circumcision?
Ahhh, the straw argument. Sooo sophisticated! Conflating seriously nasty stupidity with a sensible and guaranteed right.
same old crap. rl can't even answer questions, and now that tricky is back, i notice the conversation has gone off on religious tangents, slavery tangents, and next, probably mary jane tangents.
for the lurkers out there: notice the fact that some people can't answer direct questions, can't tackle more than one sentence in a post that they are 'responding to,' and can't even seem to understand the ideas of off-topic, straw man argument, emotional reaction, deflection, and logical fallacy in general.
the post directly above mine is a perfect example.
for the record, those kinds of people generally don't know what they are talking about, don't have a clue as to a rational method of social interaction--especially in a debate setting--and generally seem to think that they know the answers to all of the world's problems and perceived problems.
first off: your silly comment: What freedom if ya still have the Patriot Act?
The reason "ya" even know about this one is that, unlike your government, we allow, and even encourage, open discussion of this little experiment. Soon enough, it will either be turfed out, cleaned up or significantly revised. Frankly, it also probably prevented a few terrorist acts. And after all, it reeks of socialism, of which "ya" are so very very proud. "Ya" know, where your Dutch government, being "Of the thugs, By the thugs and For the thugs" does whatever it wants, being a monarchy and all. No popular votes, no disssention, just "Ya-sir!"
Our amazing freedom of speech does also allow for full and critical open discussion. So many of the ethically immature and psychologically dependant countries of this world love to bad-mouth us, yet for some reason their more honest and realistic citizens also fly, creep, crawl, tunnel, swim, forge passports, fold up into 747 wheelwells, and on and on. Very creative of them, and why again? To join us here in a nut-ball culture of desperation, like they just fled?
I doubt it. So, have a good laugh, TD. We'll see who's the last "man" standing!
To your other silly point about the pointless resistance to a tyrannical government: they seem to have convinced "ya' that "resistance is futile". Us, not so much.
What any tyrannical and suppressive government soon learns (Afghanistan, Venezuela, China, Korea, the American Colonial government, Vietnam under the French and the US, the current "dispute" in Iraq, etc.) is that any home militia, operating in defence of it's fredom, it's inalienable rights, it's very existance, and on its own home grounds, will exact a massive toll and cost on the tyranists.
Add to that the realization by, say, a young National Guardsman or woman or Air Force pilot that the town they are being asked to level is perhaps their own hometown or that of some of their friends, and that it's in direct contradiction of The Constitution, and what do you get, pray tell? Awe us with your amazing powers of observation and prophesy on this, TD.
What has historically happened in ALL such situations is 1) too many of the forces of tyranny get killed and want to break off and go home before decisively "winning", after spending billion$ and wasting tens of thousands of brave young men and women (the Soviets in Afghanistan, we Americans in 'Nam, the Brits in America; us, the Canadians and the rest of our so-called brave allies in Afghanistan, and, soon, us in Iraq. Proof enough for "ya"?).
Ever hear of "The Kill Ratio", TD? It ref's the ratio of the number of the enemy that are killed as compared to your sole death. In an internal civil war, even with the lightly armed but righteously incensed citizenry, hiding in caves and ditches, versus the well-funded, over-armed invaders, the usual kill ratio for the good guys (that would be us...) is usually in the order of 10 - 20 to one.
Often much higher than that! They kill one of us but only after we've killed twenty of them. They get increasingly more scared to even go out the door of the pub in the town they're "re-educating" or "suppressing"; we feel ever more empowered as more and more of them get righteously killed. See: The new Irish Republican Army and those two hapless Brit "invaders" in Belfast last week. Sound like a good invasion strategy to you, TD? (If so, I'm glad I'm not in your army...).
Not to mention what happens when a bunch of those young Nat. Guard or Army kids or AF Pilots see the light and turn their M1A1 Abrams or Bradleys around. Or ditto with a F-22, F-117 or? or? or? Sorta really changes the dynamic, eh, sparky?
TD, have you EVER read any actual war histories at all, or does your knowledge all come directly off the back of a Dutch Government cereal box? So far, you've demo'd an absolutely amazing lack of real-world understanding. I'm beginning to lose faith in "ya", bunky!
Last edited by rifleman; 03-16-2009 at 05:03 PM..
Reason: typos
Originally Posted by NVplumber So ya actually are so naive that ya believe that the American Government isn't (greatly) influenced by (rich) Christian lobbyists?
Only because of these (rich) Christian lobbyists did Dubya became president of the US.
And I'm sure that if Dubya or Obama had professed to be an atheist they never would've been president of the US.
Like the Bible your constitution looks good on paper, unfortunately it hardly means anything in real life. I guess American patriots regard their constitution the same way Christians look upon their Bible; as infallible.
OHHH MY! LMFAO! You could not take the challenge could ya Fluffy. Instead you do what you do best, diatribe and invective. Shame, my son was quite looking forward to giving a history lesson.. When he's done with his homework I'll let him read your reply to my questions (which he answered quite eloquently I might add).
Intelligent and factual debate is not a strong suit for you is it? Might want to work on that. So, can you answer the questions? I'm not looking for bilge that has no basis in this discussion either. I know, quite well, what the Framers had in mind back in 1787, when they drafted the Bill of Rights, they took their time and got it right. Much discussion and REAL debate went into the Constitution. When your ready to actually debate the issue , then we'll talk. At this point all you have accomplished is to prove yourself an unworthy opponent. We bid you good day.
Of course it is, because you know you're wrong. Thanks for making it crystal clear to everyone following!
You'd have done better by simply not replying. Have a great day!
Yeah the best I can do is quote the Supreme Court's opinion on the issue. The best you can do is make up stuff of no relevance at all.
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So ya actually are so naive that ya believe that the American Government isn't (greatly) influenced by (rich) Christian lobbyists?
I guess American patriots regard their constitution the same way Christians look upon their Bible; as infallible.
Yep because many (white?) Americans still make a big issue out of it.
Ya still insist that guns will automatically repel an invasion?
I guess ya aren’t aware that slavery is slavery.
But I guess this is the reason why so many Americans are for the right to carrying guns; Americans keep forgetting (or is it denying?) that guns also cause a plethora of problems.
Heck, I'll bet the military will waterboard the American anti-government rebel 'terrorists' to get info so they can bomb these anti-government rebels out of existence.
Female circumcision?
Strategery Lesson no. 1: Listen Up!
I'm beginning to lose faith in "ya", bunky!
.