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Old 06-09-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,104 posts, read 1,762,543 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhawkins74 View Post
Well, lets see, I made it out.. my wife made it out... guess what it wasnt hard to do.. guess what. there are many that are still there that could get out, but dont want to and/or refuse to.
Well I'm glad that it wasn't hard for you or your wife to make it out. Consider yourself lucky. There are plenty of people that have tried their best to get out and didn't make it.

 
Old 06-09-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,274 posts, read 1,328,921 times
Reputation: 1534
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhawkins74 View Post
He didnt hold himself back.. he was getting himself out of the Ghetto, He was making a success of himself. Are you saying that if he wasnt murdered that he would of decided to continue to live in the Ghetto, that he would of decided to live just as those that he grew up around?

I really doubt it.

His death was unfortunate and sad, but how does that prove that someone can't get out of the ghetto if they want?
He didn't make it out though. He was murdered before he could make it out, that is the point you are missing. Despite all his efforts, someone else made absolutely sure he would not make it out.
Your view is that someone cannot be held back by anyone else; but I believe that Willie Jones' failed to leave the ghetto precisely because someone else stopped him by the most last resort of measures.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,140 posts, read 1,851,934 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
He didn't make it out though. He was murdered before he could make it out, that is the point you are missing. Despite all his efforts, someone else made absolutely sure he would not make it out.
Your view is that someone cannot be held back by anyone else; but I believe that Willie Jones' failed to leave the ghetto precisely because someone else stopped him by the most last resort of measures.

But in all honesty, he himself still was part of what held him back. He did not have to be in the neighborhood at that time. He had other options, which yes, may of been a very hard stuggle, but, while yes getting out of the ghetto mentally, is a large part of it, getting out of the ghetto physically is another part.

My point is, if he would of been fully ready to leave the ghetto, he would of physically gotten himself out of there, even if it meant a struggle.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,140 posts, read 1,851,934 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by btsilver View Post
Well I'm glad that it wasn't hard for you or your wife to make it out. Consider yourself lucky. There are plenty of people that have tried their best to get out and didn't make it.
Lucky we was able to make it out? No... This I don't agree with. It is not luck that someone works, saves up some money and moves to a new location.

You say there are plenty that try their best and don't make it. Please tell me, what is keeping them from moving? There is not people standing there and telling them, you are not allowed to move from here. You are not allowed to make a better life for yourself.

Moving to a new location can be hard to do, there is no doubt about it. But anyone can move if they want to, but many only want to move if they think it will be done without struggle.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 05:18 AM
 
Location: North Jersey
10,496 posts, read 14,361,176 times
Reputation: 6103
Hmmmm most ghettos were at one time or another thriving, productive communities so that means it's the people residing in the ghetto that make it such.

There are many opportunities out there especially in the way of financial assistance for poorer people for education,the problem becomes how do you help people who do NOT want to help themselves content on living off the taxpayers via welfare, food stamps, HUD housing etc for GENERATIONS???

Those programs are supposed to be a temporary safety net not a life long career.

I feel very sorry for the people who do try & make it out of the ghetto but don't because they end up the innocent bystander killed in a drive by, killed just walking home from the store etc.......the animal element in ghettos sucks the life out of all who need to reside there and that is sad.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 05:35 AM
 
78 posts, read 11,365 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhawkins74 View Post
Lucky we was able to make it out? No... This I don't agree with. It is not luck that someone works, saves up some money and moves to a new location.

You say there are plenty that try their best and don't make it. Please tell me, what is keeping them from moving? There is not people standing there and telling them, you are not allowed to move from here. You are not allowed to make a better life for yourself.

Moving to a new location can be hard to do, there is no doubt about it. But anyone can move if they want to, but many only want to move if they think it will be done without struggle.
If it's really that simple, why doesn't everyone just "get out"? I mean, if that truly were the case, there would be no ghettos at all. My point is that although you did extremely well to get out (and I'm not taking anything away from you), you possessed a great deal of strength, discipline and acumen to do that, when most people don't make it.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 05:52 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 752,025 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by metye7 View Post
There is nothing that can be done to help out the ghettos....

You will have people that don't care and dont want better for themselves.

You will always have people that are poor.

If someone wants to get out of the ghetto, they can and will, if they don't want out, they will remain.
Most of these people have low IQ's and are highly ineducable, they and we need to realize this so they can be trained in jobs that they can handle. Until then I fear they will always be with us. And some will never achieve.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,140 posts, read 1,851,934 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BQ12345 View Post
If it's really that simple, why doesn't everyone just "get out"? I mean, if that truly were the case, there would be no ghettos at all. My point is that although you did extremely well to get out (and I'm not taking anything away from you), you possessed a great deal of strength, discipline and acumen to do that, when most people don't make it.
I am not denying that it takes discipline and strength to do it, but those are all things that the individual themselves must possess. Plus they have to want to get out. A lot of people don't realize, there are many that don't want to get out, whether they themselves realize it or not. It may be because of fear of leaving what they find is comfortable, it may be fear of how hard it is to make outside of the ghetto etc... but if someone truly wants out, they can get out.

I will take my wife for example.....
When she was old enough to move out of the house, she took her paycheck that she had from the job she worked at. She cashed it, packed up a bag of clothes, purchased a bus ticket to not only a place outside of the ghetto, but to a whole different city. She had a few hundred dollars in her pocket when she arrived in the different town. Yes she struggled financially and emotionally for quite a long time once she got to this new town, it was very hard once she left, but, she did do it.

Anyone that is living in the ghetto's to this day, can do the same exact thing. No one is saying that it would be easy, but the actually getting physically out of the ghetto isnt hard, what was hard was making the decision to leave and be willing to take the hardships that may come along with it.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 06:04 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 752,025 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
It’s interesting that the one profession that seems most and uniquely qualified to answer this question, but is never asked to, is the profession of psychology. Rarely will you hear psychologist being a guest on any new show about this issue. Maybe the mainstream media does not want to hear what they have to say on the subject, because their viewers don’t want to hear it. Maybe the profession itself, which has never really received wide acceptance or credibility, fears coming out with conclusions on social issues that will lead people to reject the profession even more. Whatever the case may be, a good portion of the problem with the ghettos is psychological.

During the height of slavery, the majority of slaves had acclimated to their condition. They learned to cope with it. Consequently, they were not trying to escape and rebel. The slaves that tried to rebel or escape were those that could not cope and acclimate to the conditions of slavery. The same thing is true during the Civil Rights era. A lot, if not the majority, of black people learned to cope and accept their situation under Apartheid like third class citizenship. When the movement started, a large percentage of blacks thought it was a “bad idea” that would only make matters worse for blacks, by agitating whites. Again, like the acclimated slave before them, they accepted and coped. Hence, it’s obvious that part of the survival process is learning to cope and acclimate to bad conditions, lest they drive you crazy or put you in more peril.

What keeps so many people trapped in the ghetto is that they have learned to acclimate and cope with that life. Just because you live in the ghetto does not mean that you don’t find happiness. All the human really needs is food, clothing and shelter….and the opposite sex. Everything more than that is luxury. The greatest human pleasures and happiness comes from relationships with other humans. Poverty and or ghetto life does not deprive you, for the most part, of those relationships. In fact, most of what we do as humans is marketing for rank in quest of the opposite sex. You can get as many beautiful mates in the ghetto as you can in any place. Thus, there is a sub culture of the poor that has its own raking system and means to ends to find “success” while living in a deprived environment. The catch is that once you find rank and success in that environment or once you learn to cope and accept that environment, one then perpetuates their existence in that environment.

You have to realize that many of the people in the ghetto have been poor for 10 generations or more.
Quote:
When you have been poor that long you learn how to cope and accept it.
It’s all you know. You don’t know how to be anything else but poor because socialization manifest mostly via emulation of ones environment. So generation after generation people are socialized to be poor…and people accept it and find ways to be happy while poor….which traps them in poverty. It’s the ones who cannot cope or who get lucky, or who have some exceptional “gift” that makes it out and this group represents a minority.
Which proves not enough has been done to get people out of this situation. Some of them are ineducable and will never get out. And when generations after generation are this way, this attitude is continually passed on and become ingrained.
 
Old 06-10-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: New Kensington (Parnassus) ,Pa
2,424 posts, read 752,025 times
Reputation: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
That is indeed a good article. I don’t think that there is any question that children reared in two parent families create a healthier environment. However, one should not assume that just because a women is not married, and has children, that they are not living with a male who may or may not be the father of the child. I know plenty of guys who just don’t want to get married. A friend of mine had 4 kids with girlfriend before he decided to get married. They lived together for about 10 years. My brother has lived with his girlfriend for about 12 years and raised a child. Hence, the absence of marriage does not equal the absence of a male. I think that the 70% out of wedlock birth figure is very deceptive. It’s certainly not true that 70% of black kids are being raised without fathers in their life.

I also want to point out that marriage does not create income. It out of wedlock birth is the problem then it suggests marriage is the solution. However, if two unemployed people get married, how does that create income for the family? If a man if not working and the women is, he is more of a burden than benefit, given that he has to be provided for. The man’s role is as the provider in our society, at least traditionally.
Quote:
The high unemployment rate of the black male is a large factor why more African American males do not assume the role of head of household or marriage partner.

Another thing to consider is this. If out of wedlock births are the problem, then what effect has the tripling of the rate of white out of wedlock births, since the 60’s, had on the standard of living of whites? Another question to ask is why has the poverty rate manage to decline from 60% for blacks, at the beginning of the 60’s, to 24% in 2000 all while out of wedlock births were increasing? In many Scandinavian countries the out of wedlock rate of birth is very high, yet the poverty rate is very low.
I don't buy this for a minute, I believe that many of these men also came from fatherless families and they don't know how to be a father, that coupled with no sense of responsibility and a little laziness.
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