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Houston
Dallas
Denver
New Orleans
New York City
Hartford
Boston
I will name a couple because it would take alot of research for places like Dallas, Hartford and Denver. I am not familiar with them. Some of these areas have since gentrified also, but were rough areas under two different physical incarnations.
New Orleans - Storyville/Iberville Projects, Treme/L. Armstrong Park
New York - Bushwick, Lower East Side, Brownsville
Boston - Parts of Roxbury
I will name a couple because it would take alot of research for places like Dallas, Hartford and Denver. I am not familiar with them. Some of these areas have since gentrified also, but were rough areas under two different physical incarnations.
New Orleans - Storyville/Iberville Projects, Treme/L. Armstrong Park
New York - Bushwick, Lower East Side, Brownsville
Boston - Parts of Roxbury
I agree with you on the LES, Roxbury and L Armstrong Park. I await your outcome on Houston, Dallas and the others.
Last edited by TXTwizter; 10-23-2008 at 12:21 AM..
Also, one more thing. Ghetto kids typically DO NOT go the same school as upper middle class kids? Where did you hear that?
Where I grew up....Waco Texas! Kids from East Waco (ghetto), go to the same high school as kids from middle and upper middle class West and Northwest Waco. It was like that in the 80s when I was in school and it is still like that today. Granted Waco isn't a "major" city but the situation is somewhat the same as with large cities. What about the small cities and town where there is only 1 elementary, 1 junior and 1 high school? I went to a suburban school and we had kids from East Waco (Waco has 4 different school districts within its borders), that went to my school, and my suburban town was middle class and a few upper class. The kids from EW were always in trouble, did poorly in school, etc. whereas the middle and upper class did good or excelled. Why is that? We had the SAME teachers that were teaching the SAME stuff to us as they were them. Like I said before, alot of it DOES have to do with how they are raised. Parents everywhere ,not just in the ghetto, need to take an interest in their childrens education if they want them to succeed, and quit using the schools as a free baby sitter. My mother worked 2 jobs to support me and my brother, and always drilled in our heads, "if you want to get ahead in life, get an education". Words to live by for ghetto and non-ghetto folks. Instead of expecting a handout or free housing people need to take responsibility in their lives, and try harder. I know its not easy but, did the people who made our country as great as it is today, sit back and whine about it? No they worked their a**es off until they finnally acheived it. They did it, so can anyone else today!
I agree with you on the LES, Roxbury and L Armstrong Park. I await your outcome on Houston, Dallas and the others.
Like I said, I don't really know anything about Dallas, Houston or Denver. It really isn't that hard. Name a housing project in your city. Do it have a variety of income levels? Was it built where there was something else before? The answers are always No, and Yes.
Ill give you some more examples from cities I am familiar with.
Sumner Field in Minneapolis, they have rebuilt it three times to no avail.
Hunters Point in San Francisco.
Anacostia/Southeast in Washington.
Congress and Capitol Streets in Milwaukee
I have given you plenty of instances where demolition has not worked. Give me an example of a place where wholesale destruction led to anything but vacant land or a recurrance of the same problems.
Where I grew up....Waco Texas! Kids from East Waco (ghetto), go to the same high school as kids from middle and upper middle class West and Northwest Waco. It was like that in the 80s when I was in school and it is still like that today. Granted Waco isn't a "major" city but the situation is somewhat the same as with large cities. What about the small cities and town where there is only 1 elementary, 1 junior and 1 high school? I went to a suburban school and we had kids from East Waco (Waco has 4 different school districts within its borders), that went to my school, and my suburban town was middle class and a few upper class. The kids from EW were always in trouble, did poorly in school, etc. whereas the middle and upper class did good or excelled. Why is that? We had the SAME teachers that were teaching the SAME stuff to us as they were them. Like I said before, alot of it DOES have to do with how they are raised. Parents everywhere ,not just in the ghetto, need to take an interest in their childrens education if they want them to succeed, and quit using the schools as a free baby sitter. My mother worked 2 jobs to support me and my brother, and always drilled in our heads, "if you want to get ahead in life, get an education". Words to live by for ghetto and non-ghetto folks. Instead of expecting a handout or free housing people need to take responsibility in their lives, and try harder. I know its not easy but, did the people who made our country as great as it is today, sit back and whine about it? No they worked their a**es off until they finnally acheived it. They did it, so can anyone else today!
Concerning the founding of our nation...well...let's not get onto another train. What if a lot times you see only desperation? What if the meager amount you make is the best you can do, given the social setting that you had no say in? Don't you think that all human beings want to be in control of their own destiny? Rich or poor, this is the one thing that makes us all human. Nobody want so be expecting handouts. But, because of what a few people did long in the past, thye suffer for it now. Because a few people (hosuing developers) thought that by discriminating against minorities will contribute to higher property values, we have one puzzle piece to the ghetto. Because our rich founding fathers and subsequent leaders (till the end of discrimination), thought that we should live in an apartheid state. It may not be our faults now, but because of the faults of our parents that we inherited, we should help. We reaped the rewards of the system. Most people here are not living on welfare wondering how they will pay rent. Welfare DOES NOT PAY HARDLY ANYTHING. Which is good, becasue it enables it to be temporary. But at the same time, maybe esp. now with the tough economic situation we should increase it.
Like I said, I don't really know anything about Dallas, Houston or Denver. It really isn't that hard. Name a housing project in your city. Do it have a variety of income levels? Was it built where there was something else before? The answers are always No, and Yes.
Ill give you some more examples from cities I am familiar with.
Sumner Field in Minneapolis, they have rebuilt it three times to no avail.
Hunters Point in San Francisco.
Anacostia/Southeast in Washington.
Congress and Capitol Streets in Milwaukee
I have given you plenty of instances where demolition has not worked. Give me an example of a place where wholesale destruction led to anything but vacant land or a recurrance of the same problems.
Well I know in Dallas and Houston, alot of developers are buying up old ghetto land and redeveloping it. Where the former residence are moved to is beyond me, but my guess would be the areas that are now less desirable for the middle and upper-class. So does that now make the ghettos in transit? Is that happening where you are as well?
BTW thanks for your input.
Where I grew up....Waco Texas! Kids from East Waco (ghetto), go to the same high school as kids from middle and upper middle class West and Northwest Waco. It was like that in the 80s when I was in school and it is still like that today. Granted Waco isn't a "major" city but the situation is somewhat the same as with large cities. What about the small cities and town where there is only 1 elementary, 1 junior and 1 high school? I went to a suburban school and we had kids from East Waco (Waco has 4 different school districts within its borders), that went to my school, and my suburban town was middle class and a few upper class. The kids from EW were always in trouble, did poorly in school, etc. whereas the middle and upper class did good or excelled. Why is that? We had the SAME teachers that were teaching the SAME stuff to us as they were them. Like I said before, alot of it DOES have to do with how they are raised. Parents everywhere ,not just in the ghetto, need to take an interest in their childrens education if they want them to succeed, and quit using the schools as a free baby sitter. My mother worked 2 jobs to support me and my brother, and always drilled in our heads, "if you want to get ahead in life, get an education". Words to live by for ghetto and non-ghetto folks. Instead of expecting a handout or free housing people need to take responsibility in their lives, and try harder. I know its not easy but, did the people who made our country as great as it is today, sit back and whine about it? No they worked their a**es off until they finnally acheived it. They did it, so can anyone else today!
Wonderful. Seriously, this is the biggest aspect of the problem. The question is what we do as a society to fix this. The answer isn't to just work harder. The parents aren't likely to spontaneously become involved. What to do? At least ensure that there is stability in parental aloofness. A consistent place to live and a living wage helps. Mentorship programs help. Most people don't have the werewithall to just work harder. The question is this: Do we care enough to work harder for them in the hopes that they will take the lead? If you think that the responsibility lies solely in the hands of those less fortunate, you are answering that question in the negative and mocking decades of institutionalized poverty, disregard for the mentally ill and social policies and norms that have created an underclass in America.
Well I know in Dallas and Houston, alot of developers are buying up old ghetto land and redeveloping it. Where the former residence are moved to is beyond me, but my guess would be the areas that are now less desirable for the middle and upper-class. So does that now make the ghettos in transit? Is that happening where you are as well?
BTW thanks for your input.
The people who lived there before usually move to medium and large size apartment blocks. Whereever rent is cheap, really. This is usually better, the number of people is the same, but they disperse somewhat and even become a minority in some areas. People will usually retain their old characteristics, but they will not have their model reinforced by their neighbors as much.
There are probably certain suburbs of Dallas or Houston that are older and have big apartment blocks. In Minneapolis, this is Richfield and Brooklyn Park. They are seeing increases in the problems that plagued the city that they were built to escape from (irony, huh?) Ghettos always move around somewhat, expanding and contracting as new areas become desireable and as old areas deteriorate. Minneapolis is a growing city. People will drive a long ways to get downtown or to a job. Does it really make sense that there are $80,000 homes two miles from the downtown of a city where the average home is $230,000? Of course not, which means that economics will eventually ensure that the poorest areas of Minneapolis are pushed out from the immediate core of the city. Cities are always going to have an area of concentrated poverty. It is a question of the size and severity of it. As long as that area is safe, clean and has the same opportunities that are expected by anyone else society has done its job. This is not the case, even in our best cities.
Remember, the movement of ghettoes depends on economic incentive. San Francisco is a better city now than it was thirty years ago, but it means that suburban Richmond now has urban problems that it probably never expected. There was incentive in San Francisco for the ghetto not to be in the city. itself. Cleveland is not a growing city. There is no need for new housing, and there is no economic possibility to substantially change existing structures. The economy being what it is now, the ghetto there may expand into new areas, but the Eastside of Cleveland is not going to improve or relocate. An example of a city in between these stages is Washington. Minorities are leaving the city (to a point where whites may soon be a majority). Prices are increasing as people get tired of driving in from Tysons Corners. Anacostia is now home to a ghetto with a new baseball stadium. This is great for the City of Washington. Now is probably not the time to buy property in certain parts of suburban Maryland (unless you want to be an absentee slumlord).
Lots of good ideas, but I'm interested in how this will all get paid for. Who's taxes will get raised for all these ideas?
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