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You missed the whole point. Infants not dying is mostly because of modern medicine. I said that. Most people are not aware of this, and they think gains in longevity are because modern medicine keeps older people alive.
Aside from lower rates of infant mortality, we aren't living much longer. Infant mortality is built into nature, it is not a defect. But of course people don't like it, and they managed to stop it.
You won't get the point no matter how I explain it.
...because you are a very poor explainer - more facts (citations) and less talk, please.
It's not even that I totally disagree with you. Modern medicine has picked off a lot of the "low hanging fruit" that just happened to mostly impact childbirth and infant/childhood mortality. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes are tougher. So what? You keep saying everyone "worships modern medicine" and that we are all deluded about what it is doing for us. No...I know it's not perfect! Or else we'd all be living perfectly healthy lives until we drop dead at 150!
But what would you have us do? Most people at least make attempts to live "healthy" - that's not good enough for you though because they apparently have a different idea than you of what that entails.
Frankly I'm sick of you assuming that I worship doctors, eat like a pig, veg out in front of the tv ( but never eat any veggies) and glug down liters of soda every day. Enough! No one is as extreme as you seem to think they are. Many people have reasonably accurate beliefs about what it takes to be healthy. They don't have to agree 100% with you to be healthy. And no, society will never tie us all to treadmills to run 5 miles a day and poke the correct diet down our throats each day - that's a dream that thankfully only you have.
No - I don't need you preaching to me in every thread in order to be saved from modern medicine. Jeez...I need a cigarette now.
...because you are a very poor explainer - more facts (citations) and less talk, please.
It's not even that I totally disagree with you. Modern medicine has picked off a lot of the "low hanging fruit" that just happened to mostly impact childbirth and infant/childhood mortality. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes are tougher. So what? You keep saying everyone "worships modern medicine" and that we are all deluded about what it is doing for us. No...I know it's not perfect! Or else we'd all be living perfectly healthy lives until we drop dead at 150!
But what would you have us do? Most people at least make attempts to live "healthy" - that's not good enough for you though because they apparently have a different idea than you of what that entails.
Frankly I'm sick of you assuming that I worship doctors, eat like a pig, veg out in front of the tv ( but never eat any veggies) and glug down liters of soda every day. Enough! No one is as extreme as you seem to think they are. Many people have reasonably accurate beliefs about what it takes to be healthy. They don't have to agree 100% with you to be healthy. And no, society will never tie us all to treadmills to run 5 miles a day and poke the correct diet down our throats each day - that's a dream that thankfully only you have.
No - I don't need you preaching to me in every thread in order to be saved from modern medicine. Jeez...I need a cigarette now.
Most people I know are not aware of what a healthy lifestyle should be like, as far as we know. Most people do not think that "natural is better," although it obviously is.
I am glad you understand my point -- modern medicine has solved certain problems, but not others. This is important, because most people think modern medicine can fix most things. That is not the case with lifestyle diseases and immune system disorders.
I am definitely not an extreme health nut, because I don't want to spend all my time growing and cooking natural food. I figure we're getting enough poison just from breathing the air, and being near our plastic computers, so avoiding all toxins is hopeless.
I would just like to see people be moderately sensible, and to have less faith in drugs.
The medical myth says people are getting heart disease, cancer, etc., at such high rates only because we now live so much longer, thanks to the drugs. This is just NOT TRUE. And it is extremely important to understand that it is not true.
Currently, I know someone who is unable to work or play or function because of terrible joint pain. He knows that statin drugs can cause this, but he is afraid to ask his MD if he can stop for a couple of weeks. At least he should try to find out if the drugs are causing it! But he, and his doctor, are stuck in the medical myth. He takes prednisone to feel better, even though that will only make it worse, and cause additional health problems.
My best friend died recently, not very old, after many years of drugs for heart disease and diabetes 2. He did whatever his doctors said. I said he should exercise more, and avoid carbohydrates. But his doctors never said that, so he ignored me. He suffered from all kinds of pains, maybe from the drugs. Of course, his health was so precarious he really needed drugs to survive. I wish his doctors had told him when he first got diabetes that he should do A LOT of exercise, not just 20 minutes 3 times a week. I wish they had told him carbohydrates, especially if refined, are bad.
I know too many examples. But you don't have to believe my anecdotes, just look at the data. Half of Americans do not exercise at all. Many, or most, think low fat diets are healthy, even if they include refined carbohydrates.
Look at the rates of heart disease, diabetes 2, cancer, dementia. No, it is NOT just because we live longer, thanks to the new drugs, so now we get the diseases of aging. This is VERY HARD to explain to people who have believed the myths all their lives.
Most people I know are not aware of what a healthy lifestyle should be like, as far as we know. Most people do not think that "natural is better," although it obviously is.
I am glad you understand my point -- modern medicine has solved certain problems, but not others. This is important, because most people think modern medicine can fix most things. That is not the case with lifestyle diseases and immune system disorders.
I am definitely not an extreme health nut, because I don't want to spend all my time growing and cooking natural food. I figure we're getting enough poison just from breathing the air, and being near our plastic computers, so avoiding all toxins is hopeless.
I would just like to see people be moderately sensible, and to have less faith in drugs.
The medical myth says people are getting heart disease, cancer, etc., at such high rates only because we now live so much longer, thanks to the drugs. This is just NOT TRUE. And it is extremely important to understand that it is not true.
Currently, I know someone who is unable to work or play or function because of terrible joint pain. He knows that statin drugs can cause this, but he is afraid to ask his MD if he can stop for a couple of weeks. At least he should try to find out if the drugs are causing it! But he, and his doctor, are stuck in the medical myth. He takes prednisone to feel better, even though that will only make it worse, and cause additional health problems.
My best friend died recently, not very old, after many years of drugs for heart disease and diabetes 2. He did whatever his doctors said. I said he should exercise more, and avoid carbohydrates. But his doctors never said that, so he ignored me. He suffered from all kinds of pains, maybe from the drugs. Of course, his health was so precarious he really needed drugs to survive. I wish his doctors had told him when he first got diabetes that he should do A LOT of exercise, not just 20 minutes 3 times a week. I wish they had told him carbohydrates, especially if refined, are bad.
I know too many examples. But you don't have to believe my anecdotes, just look at the data. Half of Americans do not exercise at all. Many, or most, think low fat diets are healthy, even if they include refined carbohydrates.
Look at the rates of heart disease, diabetes 2, cancer, dementia. No, it is NOT just because we live longer, thanks to the new drugs, so now we get the diseases of aging. This is VERY HARD to explain to people who have believed the myths all their lives.
Do you have any concrete evidence as in peer reviewed studies that prove that drugs DO NOT help one live linger with cancer or heart disease? Present us with some data please.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence so your story about your friend is again, not proving your point.
Carbs are not bad. Plenty of people consume carbohydrates and live nice long lives. If one is obese or has diabetes should of course not consume simple carbs. Complex carbs however are healthful as they provide fiber and nutrients.
Most people I know are not aware of what a healthy lifestyle should be like, as far as we know. Most people do not think that "natural is better," although it obviously is.
I am glad you understand my point -- modern medicine has solved certain problems, but not others. This is important, because most people think modern medicine can fix most things. That is not the case with lifestyle diseases and immune system disorders.
I am definitely not an extreme health nut, because I don't want to spend all my time growing and cooking natural food. I figure we're getting enough poison just from breathing the air, and being near our plastic computers, so avoiding all toxins is hopeless.
I would just like to see people be moderately sensible, and to have less faith in drugs.
The medical myth says people are getting heart disease, cancer, etc., at such high rates only because we now live so much longer, thanks to the drugs. This is just NOT TRUE. And it is extremely important to understand that it is not true.
Currently, I know someone who is unable to work or play or function because of terrible joint pain. He knows that statin drugs can cause this, but he is afraid to ask his MD if he can stop for a couple of weeks. At least he should try to find out if the drugs are causing it! But he, and his doctor, are stuck in the medical myth. He takes prednisone to feel better, even though that will only make it worse, and cause additional health problems.
My best friend died recently, not very old, after many years of drugs for heart disease and diabetes 2. He did whatever his doctors said. I said he should exercise more, and avoid carbohydrates. But his doctors never said that, so he ignored me. He suffered from all kinds of pains, maybe from the drugs. Of course, his health was so precarious he really needed drugs to survive. I wish his doctors had told him when he first got diabetes that he should do A LOT of exercise, not just 20 minutes 3 times a week. I wish they had told him carbohydrates, especially if refined, are bad.
I know too many examples. But you don't have to believe my anecdotes, just look at the data. Half of Americans do not exercise at all. Many, or most, think low fat diets are healthy, even if they include refined carbohydrates.
Look at the rates of heart disease, diabetes 2, cancer, dementia. No, it is NOT just because we live longer, thanks to the new drugs, so now we get the diseases of aging. This is VERY HARD to explain to people who have believed the myths all their lives.
People are bombarded daily with health news. You should do this, you shouldn’t do that. Fads come and fads go. Eggs are bad. Ooops never mind, eggs are good. And all the ridiculously restrictive or hard to follow diets that converts claim are the ONLY way to eat healthy or lose weight: Gluten free, Low Fat, Vegetarian, Paleo, KETO, ad nauseum when all you need to do is balance calories in and calories out.
But, the majority (I’d say 99%) of people are aware of 2 things: If you eat too many calories you’ll get fat and exercise is good for your health. The issue isn’t knowledge, it’s compliance. Just knowing those 2 things doesn’t change behavior. Neither do doctor’s suggestions. Or being yelled at by loved ones.
I would have rather stayed in bed another hour this morning and eaten some pastries, but instead I went to the gym. If someone chooses bed and pastries it’s not because they’ve somehow been fooled by modern medicine that it’s a better choice. They just choose to ignore the advice and do what they want instead of doing what they know is good for them.
Not one thinks modern medicine or doctors are perfect, but if the only compliance a person will give is taking a pill to improve their health, I’m glad we have it. As long as they’re alive, there’s a chance they may come around to a healthier lifestyle.
I NEVER SAID women should have their babies at home. I was answering someone who thought that the death rates from childbirth were very high before modern medicine. I was explaining that no, they weren't.
You said, "Women today have babies at home with midwives, and most of the time they are fine. You are better off not being in the hospital, unless it's an emergency. That's what modern medicine is good for -- emergencies."
If not in a hospital and not at home, then where? A cave? If an emergency happens during a home birth, it could take too much time to get to a hospital.
Death rates from childbirth were very high before modern medicine. The big three killers were infection (first effective treatment was with sulfa antibiotics in 1935), hemorrhage (the first blood bank in the US was established in 1937), and hypertensive disorders (toxemia - eclampsia). Women still die from those, but at nowhere near previous rates.
For most of human history pregnancy was a perilous time for a woman.
Here’s what you actually said: That dying in childbirth was easy when women starting giving birth in hospitals due to lack of hand washing by doctors.
Responses just pointed out the fallacy of your claim that hospital births somehow increased the instance of dying in childbirth. They did not.
It's a fact. It was hard for Pasteur to convince doctors that invisible germs can cause disease. They would touch a dead person, and then go deliver a baby. It caused a lot of disease related to hospital deliveries.
Life did evolve by chance and the majority of our DNA is non functional. Only 8.2 % is functional. The rest is leftover evolutionary material from our chance beginnings. I wouldn’t label it as junk since scientists are learning from it despite it being non functional.
If the goal of modern medicine was to keep more sick people alive for slightly longer periods than they would have survived without, then it's a success.
You said, "Women today have babies at home with midwives, and most of the time they are fine. You are better off not being in the hospital, unless it's an emergency. That's what modern medicine is good for -- emergencies."
If not in a hospital and not at home, then where? A cave? If an emergency happens during a home birth, it could take too much time to get to a hospital.
Death rates from childbirth were very high before modern medicine. The big three killers were infection (first effective treatment was with sulfa antibiotics in 1935), hemorrhage (the first blood bank in the US was established in 1937), and hypertensive disorders (toxemia - eclampsia). Women still die from those, but at nowhere near previous rates.
For most of human history pregnancy was a perilous time for a woman.
How high were death rates from childbirth before medicine? Of course you think that, but where is your evidence?
And when is BEFORE modern medicine? When women started having babies in hospitals where doctors spread infections?
How do you know what the death rate was in prehistoric times, or in rural environments?
You just say whatever you want to believe, and it's always in agreement with medical myths. Always. One hundred percent.
How high were death rates from childbirth before medicine? Of course you think that, but where is your evidence?
And when is BEFORE modern medicine? When women started having babies in hospitals where doctors spread infections?
How do you know what the death rate was in prehistoric times, or in rural environments?
You just say whatever you want to believe, and it's always in agreement with medical myths. Always. One hundred percent.
You were provided links with infant mortality data.
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