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The first thing we need is a return to rationality. With the current conservatism, fear mongering, ignorance, hyper patriotism...we can't get anything done. Extremists have effectively hijacked the national debate. Now we are left with poor policy and a direly uninformed public. Public policy is not supposed to be based on emotion. It's based in facts and reality. The people who who frame this debate as "us vs. them" don't seem to get that point.
Oh we agree on this point. Why when our elected reps discuss illegals do they avoid talking about the crimes they commit? Why do they avoid talking about the victims?
Why doesn't the fed track crimes committed by illegals? They track just about every other statistic.
I think if the public was educated on how many murders a year are committed by illegals the public might become a bit upset.
How many DUI's?
I would love to see a comparison between illegals and legal immigrants.
I think that we would see quite a difference. The point being that we as a nation need to be very selective about who we reward with a VISA.
Oh we agree on this point. Why when our elected reps discuss illegals do they avoid talking about the crimes they commit? Why do they avoid talking about the victims?
Why doesn't the fed track crimes committed by illegals? They track just about every other statistic.
I think if the public was educated on how many murders a year are committed by illegals the public might become a bit upset.
How many DUI's?
I would love to see a comparison between illegals and legal immigrants.
I think that we would see quite a difference. The point being that we as a nation need to be very selective about who we reward with a VISA.
Not to mention the ABSURD number of those criminals deported return time and time again to continue their crimes..........
Quote:
Nationwide, the number of people prosecuted for coming back illegally after being deported has increased by 175 percent since 2005, according to a report by Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, or TRAC, which gathers and analyzes data from public agencies.
Even with the threat of prosecution, many still find re-entry worth the risk.
The first thing we need is a return to rationality. With the current conservatism, fear mongering, ignorance, hyper patriotism...we can't get anything done. Extremists have effectively hijacked the national debate. Now we are left with poor policy and a direly uninformed public. Public policy is not supposed to be based on emotion. It's based in facts and reality. The people who who frame this debate as "us vs. them" don't seem to get that point.
Hyper-patriotism? As for what you said about extremists, I hope you at one point have realized that illegal immigrants are the biggest extremists in this debate. Don't you realize that people are just starting to get fed up with the illegal immigration population and more so what they are doing and doing to the country, cities and local communities? That's the emotion that you are just now starting to see. There IS an "US vs THEM" and illegal immigrants were often the first ones to make it that way. However, now, it is that way because things are starting to show and people's lives are being more affected by illegal immigration.
You try telling what you said to a resident of Arizona, a Texan than lives on the border and they have to put up with illegal immigrants walking through their property, beating on their door at night or just trashing up their property. Or what about the family of the Border Patrol agent that was probably stationed on the border in response to the need for more agents because of illegal immigrants.
It is "US vs THEM." That mentality shouldn't always be present because it clouds our minds with anger, that I agree with, but it IS US vs THEM.
Oh we agree on this point. Why when our elected reps discuss illegals do they avoid talking about the crimes they commit? Why do they avoid talking about the victims?
Why doesn't the fed track crimes committed by illegals? They track just about every other statistic.
I think if the public was educated on how many murders a year are committed by illegals the public might become a bit upset.
How many DUI's?
I would love to see a comparison between illegals and legal immigrants.
I think that we would see quite a difference. The point being that we as a nation need to be very selective about who we reward with a VISA.
They avoid the victims because it's not policy related. It's not unique to illegal immigration and the numbers don't flesh it out to where there is a correlation (illegal=murderer). That's why.
Hyper-patriotism? As for what you said about extremists, I hope you at one point have realized that illegal immigrants are the biggest extremists in this debate. Don't you realize that people are just starting to get fed up with the illegal immigration population and more so what they are doing and doing to the country, cities and local communities? That's the emotion that you are just now starting to see. There IS an "US vs THEM" and illegal immigrants were often the first ones to make it that way. However, now, it is that way because things are starting to show and people's lives are being more affected by illegal immigration.
You try telling what you said to a resident of Arizona, a Texan than lives on the border and they have to put up with illegal immigrants walking through their property, beating on their door at night or just trashing up their property. Or what about the family of the Border Patrol agent that was probably stationed on the border in response to the need for more agents because of illegal immigrants.
It is "US vs THEM." That mentality shouldn't always be present because it clouds our minds with anger, that I agree with, but it IS US vs THEM.
So let's throw all rational discussion out the window, because of the "headless bodies" in the desert? Or what about the the ranches overrun with drugs and illegals (that fleshed out? no, it didn't? aha).
There are obvious costs and benefits. People like to go for the extreme stories that may or may not have happened.
People are fed up much in the same way people voted for prop 8; they're afraid. People don't want reform, but want a fence because they're afraid. It's fine, but fear doesn't make good policy. Actually exploring the good, bad, etc. makes for good policy.
You mean it will be 6 years before Immigration can be serioulsly thought about? Gasp! Gasp!
No - we must think about it seriously NOW. First of all, the USA has BY FAR more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world. We are also exporting our jobs and have a very high unemployment rate, and we have an increasing poverty rate.
So we need rational immigration policies now. Illegal immigration has to stop. There is no excuse for it. And we need to lower legal immigration rates until unemployment rates go down.
They avoid the victims because it's not policy related. It's not unique to illegal immigration and the numbers don't flesh it out to where there is a correlation (illegal=murderer). That's why.
I beg to differ.
When they are trying to pass legislation without revealing certain facts because they know the impact of those facts that is intentional misleading.
For example: When they say illegals will not be covered by Obama care, and then claim 46 million americans are uninsured, included in that number is the aproximate number of illegals in this country. That is misleading.
When they talk about an amnesty and down play what crimes will be forgiven that is misleading.
What happens to a legal citizen if they are caught using a false SSN? Tax evasion etc. We are held accountable. We don't get the free pass.
What happens to a legal immigrant when caught doing these crimes? Deportation is a very real consequence.
I like many americans would like to know the numbers and types of crimes being committed by illegals. This would indicate weather or not increased spending for border security is justified. It would also show why we need to screen all VISA applicants. What is the number and types of crimes committed by legal immigrants v.s illegal immigrants? Does the vetting process work? If so it justifies our being selective about who enters this country.
For example invited guests have been known to rob their hosts. But how many as compared to uninvited guests?
The victims matter. At least they should matter. How many families have been harmed by illegals? 1, 10, 100, 1000? In my book even 1 family is too many. Because it could have been prevented.
So let's throw all rational discussion out the window, because of the "headless bodies" in the desert? Or what about the the ranches overrun with drugs and illegals (that fleshed out? no, it didn't? aha).
There are obvious costs and benefits. People like to go for the extreme stories that may or may not have happened.
People are fed up much in the same way people voted for prop 8; they're afraid. People don't want reform, but want a fence because they're afraid. It's fine, but fear doesn't make good policy. Actually exploring the good, bad, etc. makes for good policy.
And you're right. We don't need "reform" since we already have more than enough legal immigrants. There aren't jobs. It's stupid beyond belief that with unemployment rates where they are that some of you can only think we have to figure out how to bring in millions of impoverished people and provide them a nice life here. We need current laws enforced.
And let's face it - if the illegals were really some benefit to a country, then why woudn't their own countries be trying to get them back?
And you're right. We don't need "reform" since we already have more than enough legal immigrants. There aren't jobs. It's stupid beyond belief that with unemployment rates where they are that some of you can only think we have to figure out how to bring in millions of impoverished people and provide them a nice life here. We need current laws enforced.
And let's face it - if the illegals were really some benefit to a country, then why woudn't their own countries be trying to get them back?
I stated we did need reform. So by not allowing immigrants or expelling people (causing businesses to fail) we will have jobs? The economy doesn't work like that.
The people being a benefit AT HOME has no bearing to the conversation (since that's not the topic).
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