1st step in Immigration reform ? Get rid of Obama!!! (illegal, extremist, independent)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, they continue to tout the “increased” deportations (<400,000), while failing to mention the 500,000 illegals they released from custody rather than deport. Mind you, they are not your garden variety fruit pickers. They're convicted felons.
So let's throw all rational discussion out the window, because of the "headless bodies" in the desert? Or what about the the ranches overrun with drugs and illegals (that fleshed out? no, it didn't? aha).
There are obvious costs and benefits. People like to go for the extreme stories that may or may not have happened.
People are fed up much in the same way people voted for prop 8; they're afraid. People don't want reform, but want a fence because they're afraid. It's fine, but fear doesn't make good policy. Actually exploring the good, bad, etc. makes for good policy.
If it's "fine" then what are you complaining about? If it is supposedly fine then why do you automatically assume that we and others can't have clear-thinking requests in regards to illegal immigration? Also, you are damn right we are afraid. We are afraid of what is happening in our communities, public schools, city budgets, society and federal/state funding.
Why wouldn't we be scared as we are aware of what is going on as the result of illegal immigration? The funny thing is that you talk as if it is only fear that motivates our efforts. I bet you think we are all just a bunch of rednecks that hate Mexicans. You'd be surprised at the diversity of the people who have an issue with illegal immigration and I'm not just talking about on this website.
If it's "fine" then what are you complaining about? If it is supposedly fine then why do you automatically assume that we and others can't have clear-thinking requests in regards to illegal immigration? Also, you are damn right we are afraid. We are afraid of what is happening in our communities, public schools, city budgets, society and federal/state funding.
Why wouldn't we be scared as we are aware of what is going on as the result of illegal immigration? The funny thing is that you talk as if it is only fear that motivates our efforts. I bet you think we are all just a bunch of rednecks that hate Mexicans. You'd be surprised at the diversity of the people who have an issue with illegal immigration and I'm not just talking about on this website.
It's fine, for personal discourse, but not for policy. Fear is ignorance. I'm not surprised, given the current political discourse on a national level...rather I'm embarrassed. When I talk about politics with my friends from across the pond they look at me and my American friends with such curiosity. They always wonder how a nation can work when basically the voter populace likes to only hear the sound of their own voice (as perpetuated by media and political parties)?
As for funding, take away every illegal, you gain more in state funding lose out on S.S. and community funding. Cities in rural areas have expressed illegal immigration as helping stabilizing their economies (more consumers creating more sales tax as well as living in more apartments which helps bolster in property taxes by the landlords). There are both benefits and costs.
It's fine, for personal discourse, but not for policy. Fear is ignorance. I'm not surprised, given the current political discourse on a national level...rather I'm embarrassed. When I talk about politics with my friends from across the pond they look at me and my American friends with such curiosity. They always wonder how a nation can work when basically the voter populace likes to only hear the sound of their own voice (as perpetuated by media and political parties)?
As for funding, take away every illegal, you gain more in state funding lose out on S.S. and community funding. Cities in rural areas have expressed illegal immigration as helping stabilizing their economies (more consumers creating more sales tax as well as living in more apartments which helps bolster in property taxes by the landlords). There are both benefits and costs.
The fear is actually a reaction to the legitimate issues that policies will made in reaction to. So, you say that fear shouldn't be involved in "policy," but it is not. The fear is only a reaction to the issues that illegal immigration is causing that will then be the reason to look at policy.
Also, with what you are saying, you should be calling out the illegal immigrants and pro-illegal immigrant groups for using fear in their demands for comprehensive immigration reform and individual or massive amnesty. Isn't fear of being deported, "leaving their loved ones," or "returning to a country that they do not know," the motivation for their rallies, marches, starvation-protests and demands for legalization? I mean, they don't have very many rights other than basic human safety rights, so their motives have always been fear.
Calibro, you are just repeating what we have already shown you is not true: illegal immigration does not help the country overall. What small communities need illegal immigrants and can't have a LEGAL immigrant population? What are these rural areas that can't get legal immigrants on agricultural-related visas? Can't legal immigrants replace the illegal immigrants? Why not advertise the opportunities in countries and get LEGAL immigrants? You're making excuses.
The fear is actually a reaction to the legitimate issues that policies will made in reaction to. So, you say that fear shouldn't be involved in "policy," but it is not. The fear is only a reaction to the issues that illegal immigration is causing that will then be the reason to look at policy.
Also, with what you are saying, you should be calling out the illegal immigrants and pro-illegal immigrant groups for using fear in their demands for comprehensive immigration reform and individual or massive amnesty. Isn't fear of being deported, "leaving their loved ones," or "returning to a country that they do not know," the motivation for their rallies, marches, starvation-protests and demands for legalization? I mean, they don't have very many rights other than basic human safety rights, so their motives have always been fear.
Calibro, you are just repeating what we have already shown you is not true: illegal immigration does not help the country overall. What small communities need illegal immigrants and can't have a LEGAL immigrant population? What are these rural areas that can't get legal immigrants on agricultural-related visas? Can't legal immigrants replace the illegal immigrants? Why not advertise the opportunities in countries and get LEGAL immigrants? You're making excuses.
Fear is ignorance. It's an emotional response to the unknown. You've time and time have are just posting up emotional arguments. That's the crux of the debate as framed by many. It's not about good policies to you guys, it's more about what feels 'right'.
Fear is ignorance. It's an emotional response to the unknown. You've time and time have are just posting up emotional arguments. That's the crux of the debate as framed by many. It's not about good policies to you guys, it's more about what feels 'right'.
Do “good policies” include rewarding people who willfully violate our laws? Aren’t CIR and the DREAM Act based on policies that feel right? Apparently, it just doesn’t “feel right” to enforce our current laws.
Aren’t pro-illegal arguments heavily emotional?
1) We shouldn’t punish children for the sins of their parents.
2) They aren’t criminals. They are only here seeking a better life.
3) If your children were starving, wouldn’t you do the same?
4) We are a nation of immigrants, and must continue our tradition of welcoming the world’s downtrodden.
5) The children are U.S. citizens. We shouldn’t "rip apart" families by deporting parents.
6) The “Dreamers” don’t know any other country. It’s inhumane to deny them the opportunity to pursue their dreams.
7) They're as much "American" as citizens, they just lack papers.
8) They do the dirty jobs Americans won’t do. Yet, they are treated like crap.
9) What would Jesus do?
10) They love this country, and only want to become contributing members of society.
11) They have no ties to their countries of origin. They can’t even speak the language.
12) We can’t deport 12-20 million.
And, my personal favorite. . . STOP THE HATE! STOP THE RACISM!
Fear is ignorance. It's an emotional response to the unknown. You've time and time have are just posting up emotional arguments. That's the crux of the debate as framed by many. It's not about good policies to you guys, it's more about what feels 'right'.
No, our objections are based on the Rule of Law, the tax burden that these illegals are putting on Americans, loss of our jobs, our overcrowded schools, jails and hospitals and the added crime in our country.
Leave fear and xenophobia out of this. It has no place in this issue.
Do “good policies” include rewarding people who willfully violate our laws? Aren’t CIR and the DREAM Act based on policies that feel right? Apparently, it just doesn’t “feel right” to enforce our current laws.
Aren’t pro-illegal arguments heavily emotional?
1) We shouldn’t punish children for the sins of their parents.
2) They aren’t criminals. They are only here seeking a better life.
3) If your children were starving, wouldn’t you do the same?
4) We are a nation of immigrants, and must continue our tradition of welcoming the world’s downtrodden.
5) The children are U.S. citizens. We shouldn’t "rip apart" families by deporting parents.
6) The “Dreamers” don’t know any other country. It’s inhumane to deny them the opportunity to pursue their dreams.
7) They're as much "American" as citizens, they just lack papers.
8) They do the dirty jobs Americans won’t do. Yet, they are treated like crap.
9) What would Jesus do?
10) They love this country, and only want to become contributing members of society.
11) They have no ties to their countries of origin. They can’t even speak the language.
12) We can’t deport 12-20 million.
And, my personal favorite. . . STOP THE HATE! STOP THE RACISM!
Exactly Benicar, and they have the nerve to call us the emotional ones when that is all they do is appeal on emotionalism.
Do “good policies” include rewarding people who willfully violate our laws? Aren’t CIR and the DREAM Act based on policies that feel right? Apparently, it just doesn’t “feel right” to enforce our current laws.
Aren’t pro-illegal arguments heavily emotional?
1) We shouldn’t punish children for the sins of their parents.
2) They aren’t criminals. They are only here seeking a better life.
3) If your children were starving, wouldn’t you do the same?
4) We are a nation of immigrants, and must continue our tradition of welcoming the world’s downtrodden.
5) The children are U.S. citizens. We shouldn’t "rip apart" families by deporting parents.
6) The “Dreamers” don’t know any other country. It’s inhumane to deny them the opportunity to pursue their dreams.
7) They're as much "American" as citizens, they just lack papers.
8) They do the dirty jobs Americans won’t do. Yet, they are treated like crap.
9) What would Jesus do?
10) They love this country, and only want to become contributing members of society.
11) They have no ties to their countries of origin. They can’t even speak the language.
12) We can’t deport 12-20 million.
And, my personal favorite. . . STOP THE HATE! STOP THE RACISM!
Yeah they both suck. Both sides. Just because the other "side" does it, doesn't negate the irrationality on "your" side.
Yeah they both suck. Both sides. Just because the other "side" does it, doesn't negate the irrationality on "your" side.
There is nothing irrrational about the Rule of Law and our desire to have our immigration laws respected and enforced.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
