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such as? what can justify having a group of people be not protected by the very same laws that protects the rest of us? illegal immigration is simply a new form of slavery.
When you frame this debate this simplistic you're bound to not get the entirety. I already posted some of the complexities on this exact thread. Illegal immigration is not slavery. It's quit demeaning to people when you compare a failure of policy and those wanting a good life to the darkest moment in our nation's history. It kind of trivializes that part of American history.
When you frame this debate this simplistic you're bound to not get the entirety. I already posted some of the complexities on this exact thread. Illegal immigration is not slavery. It's quit demeaning to people when you compare a failure of policy and those wanting a good life to the darkest moment in our nation's history. It kind of trivializes that part of American history.
Then why is there no "good life" in their own country with NAFTA and all?
The millions fleeing their NAFTA paradise proves why the NAU is a disaster before it's even finished.
The fact that there is an illegal immigration problem and that enforcement would cost too much. Coupled with the slow speed of assimilation and the high disparity between the children of illegal immigrations who are America and the rest of the population. These things are huge issues that are not addressed.
Malthusian theories are outdated btw.
You've provided no evidence that enforcement would cost too much. Any enforcement costs would be balanced by decreased costs in other areas including money spent on educating illegal migrant children, providing funds for illegal migrants at area hospitals and reduced revenues from immigrants who work either low skilled jobs or off the books.
The slow speed of assimilation merely highlights the problem. The fault lies in people who come here in violation of our immigration laws with no real intention of learning our language or assimilating into our society. American tax dollars should not be spent to provide services for such lawbreakers. We are not responsible for rescuing a largely Mexican underclass that brazenly violates our social norms.
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Originally Posted by calibro1
It's not only businesses, but rather a decrease for community sales tax, since they are consumers. They contribute in tax revenue. So there are both costs and benefits associated with them. It's not as clear cut as both sides want to portray.
I was kind of hoping to meet more Aztlan people here to debate them. It's a little odd that there are no outrageous pro-illegal immigrant proponents here.
The average illegal migrant is less educated than the average American. They earn less and are content with lower living standards. That makes then less than desirable consumers and certainly less than desirable tax payers.
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Originally Posted by calibro1
We actually need immigration to keep our competitive advantage economically.
Your opinion is unsubstantiated by facts. We most certainly do not need masses of low skilled, non-English speaking migrants from a single ethnic group. They provide no competitive advantage to our economy.
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Originally Posted by calibro1
We're fine. Assimilation can only occur efficiently by actually providing services to aid in the process.
Americans should be asked to subsidize anyone's immigration decisions, let alone the immigration decisions of those who violate our immigration laws. Walking across the border should not entitle to you to anything but an unpleasant jail cell.
We're fine. Assimilation can only occur efficiently by actually providing services to aid in the process.
Not at all true. Back in the old days, immigrants assimilated and they didn't need a bunch of expensive government services to convince them to do so.
The right kind of immigrant WANTS to assimilate, wants to be an American.
The immigrants today more often than not expect us to give up our language and culture and adapt to theirs, they have no intention of making any effort to learn English. Most Americans learn more Spanish for a week vacation to Cancun than immigrants now learn of English after 20 years of living here.
I knew a guy from India - he said ever since he was a small child he wanted to be an American. He would watch every American show on television, he would practice English for hours and prepared himself any way he could before he came. Then he came - speaks fluent English, and is very adapted to American culture.
Contrast that with those immigrants who will never watch an American news show but must stick with Spanish television and radio. They won't make any effort even to prepare their children for school here and send them to school unable to understand two words in English.
Look at the Spanish television New Years Eve shows - nothing in English, no hint of English speaking Americans even in the NY Times Square celebrations - they make it seem like Mexico City - even with the big Mexican flag planted there, cameramen carefully weeding out any hints of "gringos" being there. Or the Disneyland one where it was all-Mexican as though they weren't on USA soil at all, none of the despised "gringo" culture or language or anything, no white or black or English speaking hispanic Americans anywhere. Very misleading also but that's what they're feeding these people.
The USA also needs a sharp reduction in legal immigration. Frankly, I wish Americans would get up in arms about the fact that in this day and age the USA takes in more legal immigrants than most of the world combined.
Ask yourself this, if China is rising so dramatically, why in the world is this country taking in so many Chinese immigrants. I think the average per year from China is something like 50,000. I don't get it. It's time for this country to drastically reduce legal immigration. We don't need them anymore, at least at the number of over 1 million per year. And certainly not when we have over 10% real unemployment. Another thing to remember is this country didn't always have such generous immigration policies.
After WWII and up until the mid-60's, immigration to the US was much lower than today.
It's also interesting that ethnic pressure groups, particularly hispanic, go on an on about the growing latino population as if it is inevitable and somehow just natural. It is not!! It is because our govt. opened the borders in 1965 wide open and has not closed them since. Latinos living in Central and S. America don't have an inherent right to live in this country. Sorry. The USA is allowing itself to go thru the most dramatic demographic change of any nation in history in a very short time frame. It is a very risky experiment indeed!!
China's college graduates can't get jobs in China. Legal immigration is an issue that deserves more scrutiny. One has to wonder how wise it is to continually import 1.5 million a year.
A system more attuned to the labor market would be advisable.
We actually need immigration to keep our competitive advantage economically.
If this piece of FICTION were true,Mexico would be an Economic Powerhouse.
Take a look at Japan ,2 cities leveled by Atomic Bombs and devastated by a war it started and lost.
Compare Mexico's huge natural resources,large ,cheap workforce and Central Americans streaming in. Why isn't Mexico an economic powerhouse...Maybe because of it's culture and political system?
I'm White. Family is Jewish, Irish, German, British.
Also that's a really racist comment...implying that all Hispanics think one way? I though that illegal immigration was regardless of race?
Look, the stats you have are probably one sided, and don't paint the whole picture. Not to mention that your 50% is an arbitrary number that you have no idea of what the impacts would be.
It is racist to ask you if you are Hispanic? No, not all Hispanics think alike but far too many are advocates for illegal aliens just because they are ethnically like themselves. That is just a fact, Jack.
My stats from state and county governments are one-sided? You don't think they compare costs vs benefits? Surely, you jest.
Let's take away all the incentives and see what the impacts would be, ok? Anything is better than the status quo, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1
It's not only businesses, but rather a decrease for community sales tax, since they are consumers. They contribute in tax revenue. So there are both costs and benefits associated with them. It's not as clear cut as both sides want to portray.
I was kind of hoping to meet more Aztlan people here to debate them. It's a little odd that there are no outrageous pro-illegal immigrant proponents here.
So Americans getting those jobs back from the illegals wouldn't be new consumers paying sales tax? The costs vs the benefits is really irrelevant anyway. Our quotas for legal immigration are already based on our true needs for immigrant labor. You know more than the experts in our government now?
We've had reconquistas in here only they can't remain civil so they are banned. Coming in here saying that white people should go back to Europe and that we are here illegally in our own country isn't being civil so they get the boot.
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Originally Posted by calibro1
We actually need immigration to keep our competitive advantage economically.
And we don't allow in legal immigrants by 1.5 million per year already? We don't have enough Americans to fill jobs? Why is it that there are millions of Americans out of work then?
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Originally Posted by calibro1
Policies regarding spending (deregulation of electricity, the ridiculous budget laws, our lack of wanting to increase property taxes, our love affair of prisons vs. education spending) have had a bigger impact than immigration.
Unemployment is high due to the recession. The IE had unemployment in the single digits until the housing crisis. We would not expect unemployment to be low during the boom times if immigrants were the only and true culprits.
Crime has decreased significantly in California.
A lot of hot air with no statistics to back your assertions up. Illegal immigration is definately one of the negative factors involved. Don't try to downplay it as something minor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibro1
We're fine. Assimilation can only occur efficiently by actually providing services to aid in the process.
We shouldn't be providing any services to illegal aliens including assisting them in assimilation since they shouldn't even be here. Instead of providing them with services to able them to stay here where they don't belong they should be booted out of here. Don't assimilate, just leave!
Last edited by Yac; 01-03-2011 at 03:35 AM..
Reason: 5 posts in a row merged
When you frame this debate this simplistic you're bound to not get the entirety. I already posted some of the complexities on this exact thread. Illegal immigration is not slavery. It's quit demeaning to people when you compare a failure of policy and those wanting a good life to the darkest moment in our nation's history. It kind of trivializes that part of American history.
What you did was finding excuses for why people should look the other way on the illegal immigration issue. Slavery was also economically beneficial, but it is no excuse. We can't find a solution to a problem unless we name the problem first. People need to realize there are those who benefit from having a large group of people to be outside the reach of the law. Those forces want to keep the gray area.
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