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Just observations from being in the construction industry. How it generally works at least where I am from is you hire a general contractor.
He will then sub out the work he doesnt do himself. Drywall for example.
Quality drywallers will use glue and screws to hang the drywall.
Then finish with 4 coats of joint compound.
Lowballers and illegals will hand with nails only. They know the work will last a good 6 months before any problems manifest themselves. By this time they will move on. Move to where the work is plentiful. In the north construction slows in the winter. They go south. Anyone who works in construction knows the above.
But dont get me wrong. I am happy to see the cheapskates get burned. Hire scabs and low ballers and you deserve what you get. If all other bids are in the same ball park and you jump on 1 that save 30% you own it for being to greedy to look at the reality. Nobody will work for free not even illegals.
OK? Those subcontractors have reputations to uphold, too. Keep in mind anyone can do this. Nothing stops shady contractors from moving around, doing poor work everywhere. My father runs construction companies. I've been around this my whole life. Illegals actually have a pretty good reputation in the industry, and I think he knows several people that use them. Reputation is a huge, huge deal in construction, especially when bidding is competitive. The same can be said of, say, the restaurant industry - my friends who run kitchens go wayyy out of their way to try to obtain visas for illegals, even though it's a huge pain.
But these are all anecdotes. Illegals are subject to the laws of supply and demand, just like everyone else.
OK? Those subcontractors have reputations to uphold, too. Keep in mind anyone can do this. Nothing stops shady contractors from moving around, doing poor work everywhere. My father runs construction companies. I've been around this my whole life. Illegals actually have a pretty good reputation in the industry, and I think he knows several people that use them. Reputation is a huge, huge deal in construction, especially when bidding is competitive. The same can be said of, say, the restaurant industry - my friends who run kitchens go wayyy out of their way to try to obtain visas for illegals, even though it's a huge pain.
But these are all anecdotes. Illegals are subject to the laws of supply and demand, just like everyone else.
I do understand everyting you are saying. So for arguements sake, i got stuck with illegals, who did not know how to do the job then right!
Everhthing they did they did wrong. So your Father knows other contractors who use illegals instead of legal workers. One complaint to the CSLB and that is all it takes.
Why would these contractors who are friends of your Father hire illegal workers and not legal workers. Curious.
If someone complained to the CSLB that is all it takes, once a complaint is file, and an investigation has been filed. There are stings going on every day, for Contractors who hire illegal workers. This cost the States more money according to them. The guy i turned in had fake licenses, and it was a known fact, he was using someone elses, don't ask me how that could happen, they explained it, i did not understand.
Last edited by california-jewel; 09-05-2011 at 08:04 PM..
The illegals are the laborers, not as frequently the contractors. The contractors obviously are much less likely to move, but their reputations are the one's at stake. Do you have any actual data for these assertions, BTW?
It's a problem where I live, sometimes they take the money and never show up to finish the work, often they're similar to the Irish Travelers for many of the same reasons.
It's a problem where I live, sometimes they take the money and never show up to finish the work, often they're similar to the Irish Travelers for many of the same reasons.
Oh my gosh that is what they told me at the CLSB not that they are like the Irish Travelers, but that these illegimate illegal contractor operations, are ready to move some place else in a heartbeat. I was told they do not stay in one town very long. I can see why.
Also all legal licensed contractors must have workers comp, they told me this at the CSLB also. So many contracors will try and get away with workers comp. that is what one lady told me.
The CSLB also told me that any contractor whose fees are over $500.00 for labor and material, must be licensed, and have workers comp.
Last edited by california-jewel; 09-05-2011 at 08:40 PM..
Let's assume this guy hired Real Americans. How would the outcome have been any better? He'd be trying to cut EVEN MORE corners. The job would have been EVEN WORSE in all likelihood.
You're a cheapskate, but it's someone else's fault when it bites you in the rear. Always looking to pass the buck.
Please PROVE that California Jewel is doin what you say.
Please PROVE that California Jewel is doin what you say.
Some people are real idiots. Who in the hell does he think finished the job. The illegals were gone after i promised to turn his butt in with the pictures i took, and by the way a contractor is in jail because of me. I don't play, **** me off, i will get even when it comes to business. It was not the fact about the bid price as it was what the contractor promised in the contract, which was better materials being used. Do you not understand. Last year things were not looking good any of these guys wanted my job, but good old boy made promises in writing something that you obviously do not understand. His great ideas to do these things, and yes why shouldn't i go for who is giving me better materials.
Not you Erik, think your pretty level headed. The contractor promised things in writing, that he later found out cost him way too much, this was a huge undertaking for any contractor. A lot of work had been done. Infact one of the illegals himself, told me that the contrator did not figure out cost and material right, not my fault. I don't give a crap what any little twirp feels, sign something in writing, and i will hold any one to it.
Let's assume this guy hired Real Americans. How would the outcome have been any better? He'd be trying to cut EVEN MORE corners. The job would have been EVEN WORSE in all likelihood.
You're a cheapskate, but it's someone else's fault when it bites you in the rear. Always looking to pass the buck.
Assume nothing not a freaking thing. Do you not COMPREHEND. After i was going to report him, i got an all new AMERICAN LEGAL LICENSED CREW, or did you skip that part. People who call others cheapskates are the biggest cheapskates around, everyone knows this. I think your cheap, and always out to think the worse, unless your are a physic please do not assume anything, you do not know. How much you have in savings!
Still trying to figure out how illegals made this guy bid too low, and how they made you accept what was an obviously questionable bid.
You got greedy and thought you were going to get some too-good-to-be-true deal. And then you complain that the work was shoddy. You get what you pay for.
You really have a hard time understanding things don't you. Illegals had nothing to do with the contractors bid. Stop spreading lies. And this really does not have that much to do with the price as it does what was promised in the contract in writing by a licensed contractor. You just don't get it. I have gotten emails aobut you, telling me to bypass you. But i believe in telling the truth whether some want to hear it or not, i will not lie .He wanted the job so bad as did others, that he gave me the best of everything, not realizing how much materials have gone up, his mistake not mine. I had things promised in writing, he actually got in over his head. And another thing i never said the work was shoddy, another lie you believe. When the work was done right by LICESNED AMERICAN WORKERS, things were fine, they knew what they were doing, Problem was the high quality materials that was in a signed contract.
Actually as far as bid price, i now understand from others, the bids were pretty close, But the things he promsied were of high quality. He did it, these things were in writing, and once they are in writing, you have to live up to the contract.
Think you understand.
When he walked at the end, we were so happy, just wanted to get rid of him. We finished minor things that needed to be finished, infact the inspector told hubby and i we should go in business, our work was that good, but an illness keeps us from doing a lot of these things now. You assume a lot of things that are so untrue.
And yes thank you, i know i got a hell of a deal.
Last edited by california-jewel; 09-06-2011 at 12:16 AM..
Oh my gosh that is what they told me at the CLSB not that they are like the Irish Travelers, but that these illegimate illegal contractor operations, are ready to move some place else in a heartbeat. I was told they do not stay in one town very long. I can see why.
Also all legal licensed contractors must have workers comp, they told me this at the CSLB also. So many contracors will try and get away with workers comp. that is what one lady told me.
The CSLB also told me that any contractor whose fees are over $500.00 for labor and material, must be licensed, and have workers comp.
Since they underbid Americans to take the work, often they bid so low they can't do the work or buy quality supplies even if they meant well.
They can't provide their employees decent pay, provide them workman's comp, or health insurance, overtime pay and so of course bring in the more desperate unskilled employees.
It's always best to go with the fair bid, not the lowest bid.
You really have a hard time understanding things don't you. Illegals had nothing to do with the contractors bid. Stop spreading lies. And this really does not have that much to do with the price as it does what was promised in the contract in writing by a licensed contractor. You just don't get it. I have gotten emails aobut you, telling me to bypass you. But i believe in telling the truth whether some want to hear it or not, i will not lie .He wanted the job so bad as did others, that he gave me the best of everything, not realizing how much materials have gone up, his mistake not mine. I had things promised in writing, he actually got in over his head. And another thing i never said the work was shoddy, another lie you believe. When the work was done right by LICESNED AMERICAN WORKERS, things were fine, they knew what they were doing, Problem was the high quality materials that was in a signed contract.
Actually as far as bid price, i now understand from others, the bids were pretty close, But the things he promsied were of high quality. He did it, these things were in writing, and once they are in writing, you have to live up to the contract.
Think you understand.
When he walked at the end, we were so happy, just wanted to get rid of him. We finished minor things that needed to be finished, infact the inspector told hubby and i we should go in business, our work was that good, but an illness keeps us from doing a lot of these things now. You assume a lot of things that are so untrue.
And yes thank you, i know i got a hell of a deal.
I'm not sure what you think I'm "confused" about. So far, all this rehashing hasn't uncovered anything new I didn't get the first time.
I'm not sure what I've assumed that is untrue, either.
You say you know a lot about this type of work, then you should have been suspicious of this guy's original bid. But you took it anyway. And then you were outraged that problems popped up.
What part am I confused about? The guy made a promise, yeah, I get that, and I agree people should be honest and stick to their word. That doesn't mean you should just believe every bozo that promises you the moon for a song.
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