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I provided the quote from the same link I initially provided. I never said it happens all year round. I never mentioned any of the other conditions you are trying to enter into the conversation now either. I just said it is something that happens when farmers get h-2a workers.
Now that I provide a link, you try to claim that even though it does happen (doh!), they should be able to just go to other countries without problems. Should they just assume those Mexican applicants are going to be delayed and go to other countries 1st or after it's too late? Should they not hire Mexicans because they can't rely on getting them there on time? Honestly, I don't know the application rates from other countries or other details to comment further. Like I said, ask USDA or whoever wrote the study. They obviously think that it's a problem. One that you 1st tried to say didn't even exist.
Nice exaggeration... I accused you of using hyperbole, never claimed you lied. The H2A visas are in all consulates around the world, not specific to Mexico (you and your study deal only with Mexico). A Mexican delay shouldn't effect the rest of the worlds H2A issuance. The farmer may choose to use workers from only Mexico, but then who's fault is that? As I pointed out, the study (your claim) is dealing only with Mexico.
You 2+2'ers argue in generalizations and then nit pick the sh@t out of others comments verse following the conversation.
Maybe you should go back and re-read my comments (we've progressed and continued to move forward, while you are now stuck on 1 point). It's not the system that is flawed per se, it is the inability of the Consuls in Mexico (as per your link) to obtain enough workers to come in and sign up (during the summer months - per your link). What do you suppose causes this? Mexico's low unemployment? the closing of some US Consulates in Mexico making it harder and further to travel to to obtain a visa? That maybe not enough Mexicans want to work here anymore? Whats wrong with all the other S American Nations? or is Mexico the only nation allowed to use the H2A?
Yeah that's usually when harvest and the need for temporary (h-2A) workers happens unless global warming really starts changing seasons and stuff.
Wow, i never knew that illegal immigrants were the root of all that is wrong in this country!!!
Who knew that without Illegal Immigrants there would be ZERO unemployment! No one would be in Prison! Illegal drugs would cease to exist. No more CRIME, no MORE Gangs, No more traffic Jams, no more $5 gas, no more mid east wars, no more budget deficits, no more credit crises, no more housing bubbles or bursts, no more corportate bail outs, no more racism, no more socialism, no more facisim, no more homeless, no more poverty, no more nothing.. everything will be GRAND! Who knew????
Im thinking the same thing. Empty prisons...,what a joke. I guess after we send home all the illegals we get rid of all the citizens who really cause this nations down fall..
It doesn't matter if they are renting or buying. If there are 20 million fewer people in this country, the available stock of empty residential dwellings will spike, big time. Both renters and buyers will have a hugely expanded pool of properties to pick from. Even if all the illegals are renting, their sudden disappearance makes rents crash, which will put pressure on sales as prospective buyers notice that renting is suddenly getting much cheaper. Anyone wanting to sell will have to offer a price to compete with the plummeting rents.
And this will spread through the whole market. Even if illegals only leave low-end housing vacant, those people who were considering a just-slightly-above-low-end property will see the huge glut of low end properties and may decide saving a few hundred dollars a month is nicer than an incremental upgrade in property quality/size. And that will put pressure on slightly-above-low-end property prices. So then people looking at mid-range property will see a similar effect. So suddenly mid-range properties are under tremendous price pressure. and so on.
yes, this is technically speculation but I'm not just pulling this out of my rear. This is pretty basic economics here, plus very rudimentary historical perspective as well.
20M? are you sure that they all individually rent 20M dwellings? I always thought there were but 11M total here, thus making the number of dwellings even fewer as many are here as families, again lowering this dramatic number. IRS claims 8.5M ITINs were used as of last count in filing tax forms, thus at best 8.5M households. That number realistically is probably closer to 6 - 6.5M households. Stretch that across the USA to roughly 135,400 dwellings per (lower 48) state (if we change it to all 50 states, it's even lower). The housing market already predicts an additional 20% decline in values from today's numbers. That number could be 30% overall due to the illegals leaving (only adding an additional 10% to the already forecasts based on predicted held foreclosures yet to hit the market). This still is a correcting market and will be for many years to come. Still about 12M homes in the shadow inventory of banks.
20M? are you sure that they all individually rent 20M dwellings? I always thought there were but 11M total here, thus making the number of dwellings even fewer as many are here as families, again lowering this dramatic number. IRS claims 8.5M ITINs were used as of last count in filing tax forms, thus at best 8.5M households. That number realistically is probably closer to 6 - 6.5M households. Stretch that across the USA to roughly 135,400 dwellings per (lower 48) state (if we change it to all 50 states, it's even lower). The housing market already predicts an additional 20% decline in values from today's numbers. That number could be 30% overall due to the illegals leaving (only adding an additional 10% to the already forecasts based on predicted held foreclosures yet to hit the market). This still is a correcting market and will be for many years to come. Still about 12M homes in the shadow inventory of banks.
I didn't say 20 million dwellings. I said 20 million people, only because that's the number in the subject line of this thread. In reality it doesn't matter if the number is 20 or 11 million. Removing a large number of people from the demand side all of a sudden will shock the market. It will be BIGGER if the number is 20MM rather than 11MM, but it's still going to be a SIGNIFICANT shock either way. The fact that the market is already stressed and has a ton of excess inventory just makes the market MORE vulnerable to a demand shock. There's basically no ability in the current market to absorb such a shock.
I didn't say 20 million dwellings. I said 20 million people, only because that's the number in the subject line of this thread. In reality it doesn't matter if the number is 20 or 11 million. Removing a large number of people from the demand side all of a sudden will shock the market. It will be BIGGER if the number is 20MM rather than 11MM, but it's still going to be a SIGNIFICANT shock either way. The fact that the market is already stressed and has a ton of excess inventory just makes the market MORE vulnerable to a demand shock. There's basically no ability in the current market to absorb such a shock.
You are still assuming that there are 11M illegal renters, I figure it to be much more in the ideals of about 6 - 6.5M as many are husband and wife with chid(ren) here. My deductions above refer to people and housing, I don't believe the shock will be as SIGNIFICANT as you claim (if at all from the loss of these people) since we are already dealing with a housing issue. The issue is in your use of hyperbolic wording with speculation.
It doesn't matter if they buy or rent. They are still consuming housing. And if they stop consuming housing, if demand suddenly drops by twenty million people, prices ACROSS THE BOARD are going to plummet even more. They are currently living SOMEWHERE. And if they all instantly vanish, that's going to cause a huge supply glut. It would be much, much worse than what happened around 2008.
All of the section 8 and entitlements will decrease as well. Illegals have a negative ROI. So many rape and pillage our american tax base revenue already that it can only get worse as they continue to excrete anchor baby after anchor baby.
I think anyone on welfare should be on birth control. The wrong people in this country are having the majority of the kids. Most middle class people cannot afford to have kids, they are drowning in debt supporting the illegals and poor, lazy americans.
So in essence, America is getting dumber by the minute since education and income are linked. America will soon be a third world country, impoverished and lacking food and healthcare advances.
Last edited by aquabluesrq; 07-18-2011 at 12:59 AM..
Reason: god bless america!
Your opinion is far too interesting to be contained in a simple forum. Your idea of putting women who request welfare on birth control seems interesting in a eugenics sort of way.
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