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In that case, why do the millions of illegal "businessmen" here never return to their companies?
They are not businessmen nor are they only temporary. Their intent is clear. The are long term immigrants even if illegal.
I simply point out that it is extremely common to violate immigration laws. For instance Britain has recently cut down on the practice though I suspect they still ignore the regular commercial traveler. I worked a week a month for a couple of years in England without a commercial visa. A commercial visa would be acquired only if you were permanently stationed in the country.
jeeze, you dont like it very much when people call criminal (illegal) aliens criminal, do you?
crossing the border illegally is a crminal act, hence the name criminal aliens.
if you have a visa to go into another country, then you are their on thier desire. they can also revoke your visa and kick you from their country.
Sorry I have no objections to criminals of any sort being called criminals.
I point out however that breaking of immigration statutes and rules is a reasonably common action regularly practiced by Americans. As a general rule it can get you thrown out of a country. That happens however almost exclusively when you get into trouble for something else. Otherwise everyone is practical and simply ignores the rules.
Sorry I have no objections to criminals of any sort being called criminals.
I point out however that breaking of immigration statutes and rules is a reasonably common action regularly practiced by Americans. As a general rule it can get you thrown out of a country. That happens however almost exclusively when you get into trouble for something else. Otherwise everyone is practical and simply ignores the rules.
Everyone??? I for 1 am well traveled. I have been to 16 different countries and yet never felt the need to violate their immigration laws. Why would I? I visit their country its upon me to obey their laws. if their laws are so disagreeable or difficult I'll either not go there or if I am already there I'll leave early.
Everyone??? I for 1 am well traveled. I have been to 16 different countries and yet never felt the need to violate their immigration laws. Why would I? I visit their country its upon me to obey their laws. if their laws are so disagreeable or difficult I'll either not go there or if I am already there I'll leave early.
Not only that but as an American if I were to break another country's laws or even my own I would expect to pay the consequences. The sympathizers to illegal aliens who break ours though expect them to be rewarded instead.
jeeze, you dont like it very much when people call criminal (illegal) aliens criminal, do you?
crossing the border illegally is a crminal act, hence the name criminal aliens.
if you have a visa to go into another country, then you are their on thier desire. they can also revoke your visa and kick you from their country.
I guess these pro-illegals believe that two wrongs make a right. I would fully expect American lawbreakers to pay the consequences if they disrespected another country's laws. On the other hand, the pro-illegals want us to look the other way when a foreigner breaks ours.
American businessmen routinely travel on business to countries around the world on tourist visas or cards. That is virtually always illegal.
No it is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
For instance Britain has recently cut down on the practice though I suspect they still ignore the regular commercial traveler. I worked a week a month for a couple of years in England without a commercial visa. A commercial visa would be acquired only if you were permanently stationed in the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
I point out however that breaking of immigration statutes and rules is a reasonably common action regularly practiced by Americans. As a general rule it can get you thrown out of a country. That happens however almost exclusively when you get into trouble for something else. Otherwise everyone is practical and simply ignores the rules.
That doesn't make them illegal aliens as they have a legal visa to get in to said country, they may be using the wrong visa type for their intended purpose (but the US Passport in the large majority of countries doesn't require a different type of visa to enter another country for certain types business). Now, according to you, you stated you were illegal 30 - 40 times, who obtained your visa? You or the business that brought you there one week a month? A business person from the USA to Britain doesn't need a business visa as Americans are not on the Visa National List of the UK. UK Border Agency | Do you need a visa as a business visitor?
If you obtained your own visa, worked in Britain and you made money there, then you obtained the wrong visa and defrauded the British Government which would make you an international criminal.
Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 10-28-2011 at 05:11 PM..
No it is not.
That doesn't make them illegal aliens as they have a legal visa to get in to said country, they may be using the wrong visa type for their intended purpose (but the US Passport in the large majority of countries doesn't require a different type of visa to enter another country for certain types business). Now, according to you, you stated you were illegal 30 - 40 times, who obtained your visa? You or the business that brought you there one week a month? A business person from the USA to Britain doesn't need a business visa as Americans are not on the Visa National List of the UK. UK Border Agency | Do you need a visa as a business visitor?
If you obtained your own visa, worked in Britain and you made money there, then you obtained the wrong visa and defrauded the British Government which would make you an international criminal.
I am vastly more knowledgabe in this area than you. At various times I had dozens of reports working elsewhere in the world. I, in fact, managed activity in both the US and London simultaneously. I also was the American caretaker of a number of Europeans.
There is no question that I was in technical violation of the immigration laws in Britain, Japan, Brazil and likely Mexico. I spent more than a few hours discussion the subject with our and outside law firms. The decision is the only practical one in a lot of cases.
The practicality was that no one cared and the only way you could have a problem with it was by doing something dumb like getting arrested.
But make no mistake. We lied and used false documents. Just like everyone else did.
At this point in the technology a lot of what we needed to do could be handled by video conferencing which was not yet a practical alternative in my days. There are however situations where we need a quick hands on...and then you lie and go as a tourist.
I am vastly more knowledgabe in this area than you.
Judging from the comments you left, I highly doubt that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
At various times I had dozens of reports working elsewhere in the world. I, in fact, managed activity in both the US and London simultaneously. I also was the American caretaker of a number of Europeans.
So what, you want a cookie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
There is no question that I was in technical violation of the immigration laws in Britain, Japan, Brazil and likely Mexico. I spent more than a few hours discussion [sic] the subject with our and outside law firms. The decision is the only practical one in a lot of cases.
The practicality was that no one cared and the only way you could have a problem with it was by doing something dumb like getting arrested.
But make no mistake. We lied and used false documents. Just like everyone else did.
So you purposefully defrauded the governments of other nations. That still doesn't make you an illegal alien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
At this point in the technology a lot of what we needed to do could be handled by video conferencing which was not yet a practical alternative in my days. There are however situations where we need a quick hands on...and then you lie and go as a tourist.
Again, for simple business trips to most other nations a US passport is all that is needed. Each nation has its own laws, I already gave that of Britains which doesn't jive with your claim of having been an illegal alien 30 - 40 times.
Judging from the comments you left, I highly doubt that.
So what, you want a cookie?
So you purposefully defrauded the governments of other nations. That still doesn't make you an illegal alien.
Again, for simple business trips to most other nations a US passport is all that is needed. Each nation has its own laws, I already gave that of Britains which doesn't jive with your claim of having been an illegal alien 30 - 40 times.
Yes we purposefully lied to foreign governments and mischaracterized our visits as that was the only rational way to do them. You of course would have stayed home and legal and allowed your business to fail. But you would have felt good about it.
We were therefore alien...by defintion...and illegal by using fraudulent documents or making fraudulent or incomplete statements about our stay.
Criminal? Probably not. But illegal? Certainly. And note that such things are routinely turned into criminal matters whether they are or not if certain governments are annoyed with you.
Actually the more interesting thing is when you need to bribe a foreign official which violates both the law of the local nation and US law. Still gets done though.
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