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You of course would have stayed home and legal and allowed your business to fail. But you would have felt good about it.
I see, you are full of yourself.
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Originally Posted by sparkit711
We were therefore alien...by defintion...and illegal by using fraudulent documents or making fraudulent or incomplete statements about our stay.
Anyone entering another nation is an alien unless the intended purpose is to immigrate. What you did was illegal, however you had a valid visa during the duration of time you were there (whether you lied about the intended purpose of your visit or not), this does not make you an illegal alien, although it probably would make you a criminal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
Criminal? Probably not. But illegal? Certainly. And note that such things are routinely turned into criminal matters whether they are or not if certain governments are annoyed with you.
Criminal most assuredly as an illegal act. What you did was illegal, but that still does not make you an illegal alien as you were granted authorization at the port of entry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
Actually the more interesting thing is when you need to bribe a foreign official which violates both the law of the local nation and US law. Still gets done though.
Yes and it is criminal/illegal to do so.
Being an illegal alien means you are here in violation of immigration law, meaning you entered without inspection or you have an order of deportation against you. What you did was enter another country legally through a port of entry, never overstayed your visa time limits (guessing since you haven't made this clear), yet you worked outside of your visa parameters. This makes you a criminal not an illegal. At worst they would fine you, bar you from re-entry, and deport you.
Anyone entering another nation is an alien unless the intended purpose is to immigrate. What you did was illegal, however you had a valid visa during the duration of time you were there (whether you lied about the intended purpose of your visit or not), this does not make you an illegal alien, although it probably would make you a criminal.
Criminal most assuredly as an illegal act. What you did was illegal, but that still does not make you an illegal alien as you were granted authorization at the port of entry.
Yes and it is criminal/illegal to do so.
Being an illegal alien means you are here in violation of immigration law, meaning you entered without inspection or you have an order of deportation against you. What you did was enter another country legally through a port of entry, never overstayed your visa time limits (guessing since you haven't made this clear), yet you worked outside of your visa parameters. This makes you a criminal not an illegal. At worst they would fine you, bar you from re-entry, and deport you.
So you agree to alien...you agree to illegal - but not to illegal alien.
You suggest it may be criminal which is always illegal - but still not an illegla alien.
I am overpowered. And I think we have shed all the light available on this dark area.
So you agree to alien...you agree to illegal - but not to illegal alien.
You suggest it may be criminal which is always illegal - but still not an illegla alien.
I am overpowered. And I think we have shed all the light available on this dark area.
The context of which you attempt to use the word illegal for yourself is incorrect. If you had "reports and management" skills as you claim, then you would know all about the context of wording and the usage of words. Based on the other discussion we had, you don't seem very, shall we say, skillful.
I am vastly more knowledgabe in this area than you. At various times I had dozens of reports working elsewhere in the world. I, in fact, managed activity in both the US and London simultaneously. I also was the American caretaker of a number of Europeans.
There is no question that I was in technical violation of the immigration laws in Britain, Japan, Brazil and likely Mexico. I spent more than a few hours discussion the subject with our and outside law firms. The decision is the only practical one in a lot of cases.
The practicality was that no one cared and the only way you could have a problem with it was by doing something dumb like getting arrested.
But make no mistake. We lied and used false documents. Just like everyone else did.
At this point in the technology a lot of what we needed to do could be handled by video conferencing which was not yet a practical alternative in my days. There are however situations where we need a quick hands on...and then you lie and go as a tourist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkit711
Yes we purposefully lied to foreign governments and mischaracterized our visits as that was the only rational way to do them. You of course would have stayed home and legal and allowed your business to fail. But you would have felt good about it.
We were therefore alien...by defintion...and illegal by using fraudulent documents or making fraudulent or incomplete statements about our stay.
Criminal? Probably not. But illegal? Certainly. And note that such things are routinely turned into criminal matters whether they are or not if certain governments are annoyed with you.
Actually the more interesting thing is when you need to bribe a foreign official which violates both the law of the local nation and US law. Still gets done though.
Please speak for yourself. It is not true that "everyone else does it."
Obviously, you are working for a very unethical organization. Otherwise, you would not operate with such willful and wanton disregard for the law. I have frequently traveled on overseas business, and lying and using false documents is certainly not par for the course; nor is bribery.
But, this certainly explains your stance on illegal immigration, as well as your attitude in general. Sadly, you are here flaunting your illegal exploits, and even consider liars and frauds to be the norm. Wow!
Please speak for yourself. It is not true that "everyone else does it."
Obviously, you are working for a very unethical organization. Otherwise, you would not operate with such willful and wanton disregard for the law. I have frequently traveled on overseas business, and lying and using false documents is certainly not par for the course; nor is bribery.
But, this certainly explains your stance on illegal immigration, as well as your attitude in general. Sadly, you are here flaunting your illegal exploits, and even consider liars and frauds to be the norm. Wow!
Ask a shop lifter, everyone does it.
Ask a drunk driver, everyone does it.
Ask an unlicenced driver, we all do it.
Ask a thief, we all steal.
LOL my god roflmao this has to be the most common, most lame excuse ever used. Takes me back to my grade school days. LOL
How many would you like? Anyone who did business in Brazil in the 80s...all of them. Japan similar. And anyone who did business in Brazil in the 80s paid bribes. Or they did not do business.
In the 70s we always got commercial visas to go to Japan. But in the 80s we stopped. Simply too complex and difficult for short term assignments and meetings.
Ask a shop lifter, everyone does it.
Ask a drunk driver, everyone does it.
Ask an unlicenced driver, we all do it.
Ask a thief, we all steal.
LOL my god roflmao this has to be the most common, most lame excuse ever used. Takes me back to my grade school days. LOL
Yep. It also reminds me of my mother's words:
"If everyone else jumped off a bridge, does that mean you should too?"
"I don't care what everyone else is doing, you're not!"
Sorry I have no objections to criminals of any sort being called criminals.
I point out however that breaking of immigration statutes and rules is a reasonably common action regularly practiced by Americans. As a general rule it can get you thrown out of a country. That happens however almost exclusively when you get into trouble for something else. Otherwise everyone is practical and simply ignores the rules.
if you go across another countries borders without a passport care or a passport, you are there illegally and are therefor a criminal breaking that countries laws.
How many would you like? Anyone who did business in Brazil in the 80s...all of them. Japan similar. And anyone who did business in Brazil in the 80s paid bribes. Or they did not do business.
In the 70s we always got commercial visas to go to Japan. But in the 80s we stopped. Simply too complex and difficult for short term assignments and meetings.
Naivety...rampant on CD...
So what you did in the '70's and '80's (enter a country legally but violate your parameters - criminal) is still equivocal to today? Naivety? LMFAO
Your claim was you were an illegal alien (30 - 40 times), I think you pretty much proved you weren't, but you did show us that you are an international visa violator, which can make you a criminal in those countries (for violating the terms of your visa), just not an illegal alien in those countries (unless you received an order for deportation and never left), but then you wouldn't be here. What was that phrase you used earlier.... I am vastly more knowledg[e]ab[l]e [sic] in this area than you.
So what you did in the '70's and '80's (enter a country legally but violate your parameters - criminal) is still equivocal to today? Naivety? LMFAO
Your claim was you were an illegal alien (30 - 40 times), I think you pretty much proved you weren't, but you did show us that you are an international visa violator, which can make you a criminal in those countries (for violating the terms of your visa), just not an illegal alien in those countries (unless you received an order for deportation and never left), but then you wouldn't be here. What was that phrase you used earlier.... I am vastly more knowledg[e]ab[l]e [sic] in this area than you.
I will admit that I have no idea what the situation is like since 9/11. I suspect though it has probably gotten worse. The authorities always crack down on the long term visas...but the short term ones are protected by the tourist industry.
And thinking about it far more than 30 or 40 times. Likely well over 100. I may have been legal on occasion but it was rare.
YMMV...those who know little often feel they are expert.
And I was pretty much identical to similar US business travelers over the period from about 1970 to 1995.
You of course know better. And we have beaten another thread to death.
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What was that phrase you used earlier.... I am vastly more knowledg[e]ab[l]e [sic] in this area than you. 
