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Old 01-04-2012, 04:35 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,125 times
Reputation: 40

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The flaw in the system isn't that we dont allow enough immgrants to apply and be accepted. Nor is it that our standards are to high. Quite honestly we don't owe anyone a VISA.
We as a nation should be very selective about who we grant the gift of a VISA to, we will after all be forced to live with them. If anything we are not selective enough.
Take your average illegal that you would grant amnesty:
Entered illegally
ID fraud or theft
Tax fraud or evasion
Driving without a license
To name 4 crimes right off the bat and 3 of them would get a citizen jailed.
Is this the kind of immigrant we really want? I understand poor. More than most because I have actually been to countries where a tin shack was called home and 10 dollars a day was the house hold income.
When I first got out of the military I made $7800 for that year.
I never once considered crime, theft, welfare as a way to meet my needs.
Honest people wont.
Illegals like most criminals have a multitude of excuses. Starting with my crime didnt hurt anyone.
It is the wrong question. It is the kind of immigrant you have. What is it you will do about it? Do nothing and you will get more - guaranteed.

Note that I do not consider these people criminals. I do consider at least some of them illegal and subject to deportation. But not criminal.

They do violate some US laws. But mostly of the sort that lay below the criminal level. They will not for instance be gone after for income tax evasion because in general they do not make enough money to owe any. Making up a SS number is not a crime. etc.

Actually illegals make few apologies..."you do what you got to do". Is both common and correct.

So either we figure some compromise way to regularize their status and get the problem to a size that can be handled or we get five million more.

What is your choice?
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:37 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
It is the wrong question. It is the kind of immigrant you have. What is it you will do about it? Do nothing and you will get more - guaranteed.

Note that I do not consider these people criminals. I do consider at least some of them illegal and subject to deportation. But not criminal.

They do violate some US laws. But mostly of the sort that lay below the criminal level. They will not for instance be gone after for income tax evasion because in general they do not make enough money to owe any. Making up a SS number is not a crime. etc.

Actually illegals make few apologies..."you do what you got to do". Is both common and correct.

So either we figure some compromise way to regularize their status and get the problem to a size that can be handled or we get five million more.

What is your choice?
Illegals aren't immigrants. And yes they are criminals. They violate our immigration laws, forge documents so they can work, work off the books, drive on our roads and use medical services without paying for them.

How many laws do they have to break where they finally get penalized for doing so? "Regularizing their status" is nothing more than a euphamism for amnesty. We tried it before. Try it again and you'll just more illegals. And that's the last thing we need in a recession. We certainly don't need to give what amounts to Mexico's underclass permission to get free food when they sneak in here.

The only compromise is to enforce our laws. Every other country enforces its immigration laws. There's no reason we can't do the same. They do what they have to do. We should help the American taxpayer, do the same and tell them firmly via huge fines for them and their employers, no schooling or citizenship for their kids and the cooperation of the Mexican and Guatemalan government to get out and go home.

Alabama got them to leave. There's no reason the rest of this country can't do the same.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:36 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Illegals aren't immigrants. And yes they are criminals. They violate our immigration laws, forge documents so they can work, work off the books, drive on our roads and use medical services without paying for them.

How many laws do they have to break where they finally get penalized for doing so? "Regularizing their status" is nothing more than a euphamism for amnesty. We tried it before. Try it again and you'll just more illegals. And that's the last thing we need in a recession. We certainly don't need to give what amounts to Mexico's underclass permission to get free food when they sneak in here.

The only compromise is to enforce our laws. Every other country enforces its immigration laws. There's no reason we can't do the same. They do what they have to do. We should help the American taxpayer, do the same and tell them firmly via huge fines for them and their employers, no schooling or citizenship for their kids and the cooperation of the Mexican and Guatemalan government to get out and go home.

Alabama got them to leave. There's no reason the rest of this country can't do the same.
Hey Eleanor...the horse twitched. Hit it again...whack...whomp...bang.

Which other country is it that has expelled 11 million illegal aliens? Particularly when embedded among 30 million friendlies.

And of course there is a reason we can't. We lack the will and the means.

They don't need anything free. They may take it if available but they don't need it. That is yet another of your multiple myths.

I used regularization to imply something less than full amnesty. Make it hard and expensive to get to a permanent status but possible.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:02 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,322,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Hey Eleanor...the horse twitched. Hit it again...whack...whomp...bang.

Which other country is it that has expelled 11 million illegal aliens? Particularly when embedded among 30 million friendlies.

And of course there is a reason we can't. We lack the will and the means.

They don't need anything free. They may take it if available but they don't need it. That is yet another of your multiple myths.

I used regularization to imply something less than full amnesty. Make it hard and expensive to get to a permanent status but possible.
Man oh man, talk about making 30 million supposed friendlies look like aiders and abetters of glaring lawbreakers. My God; that's a "wonderful" way for Hispanics, most illegal aliens ARE Hispanic, to bring more sorrow down on their heads.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:09 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Man oh man, talk about making 30 million supposed friendlies look like aiders and abetters of glaring lawbreakers. My God; that's a "wonderful" way for Hispanics, most illegal aliens ARE Hispanic, to bring more sorrow down on their heads.
Vast numbers of the illegals are relatives and friends of the legal. You did not know that?
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:07 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Vast numbers of the illegals are relatives and friends of the legal. You did not know that?
You did know that's due to the prior 7 amnesties we have had, right?
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:26 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,113 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvocatusCenturion View Post
Do you get this mad over people and speeding tickets? Speeding is a leading cause of death in this country.
Bad driving kills people all the time. Why do you have no problem with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by libertylover7 View Post
Hey Eleanor...the horse twitched. Hit it again...whack...whomp...bang.

Which other country is it that has expelled 11 million illegal aliens? Particularly when embedded among 30 million friendlies.

And of course there is a reason we can't. We lack the will and the means.

They don't need anything free. They may take it if available but they don't need it. That is yet another of your multiple myths.

I used regularization to imply something less than full amnesty. Make it hard and expensive to get to a permanent status but possible.
As many of us have explained to you multiple times, we don't have to expel them. We merely have to make their lives harder. If we do that they will leave. They've already left Alabama in large numbers. Why do you deny this fact? Your belief otherwise is one of your own sad myths. They only come here because they want what they can get from our society. Make it harder on them and they will leave. Just because YOU lack the desire to see them leave does not mean WE do so as well.

Unless someone has an exceptional talent in some area, no they should not be allowed to skip the immigration lines. High school dropouts from Mexico who don't speak English should not quality for amnesty and benefits from American taxpayers just because they've brazenly violated our laws for many years.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:22 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,164,328 times
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The difference is that our citizens cannot be deported and that none of us are perfect therefore some Americans speed but they also get a ticket for it. There is nothing else we can do about American speeders.

Illegals, however should be prevented from coming here in the first place and therefore we wouldn't have the additional crimes that they commit. They also should be deported when caught.

This speeding analogy is one of the most ridiculous arguments that the pro-illegals use. They use that one over and over ad nauseum. When are they going to stop using crimes that Americans commit for justifying illegal entry into our country?
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,122,580 times
Reputation: 18142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas Joe View Post
This issue above others has always torn me. On one hand I am a person that believes in the rule of law and I think laws should be enforced. Those that are not should be taken off the books. So it really makes me mad when people sneak into the country illegally. I have always been of the opinion that such people should be caught and deported and the people who hire them sent to jail or subjected to asset forfeiture or both. But on the other hand, I see these people as a real positive for our country. They get up and work hard everyday. They do jobs that Americans would not touch for any wage. And frankly they work harder and have better character than many people who were born here and are lazy bums or criminals. I honestly think we need to help these people in some way. I just don't know how to help them without encouraging more of them to sneak in. We need some kind of amnesty so they can stay but an amnesty that will not encourage more illegal entry.
You need to take a good long look at the crime rates and how they have increased where this population has basically taken over. They are no more hardworking than any other group of people. I am just not sure where you are gathering your information but it just isn't realistic. No amnesty and never allowed to be a legal citizen!
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:25 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,164,328 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
You need to take a good long look at the crime rates and how they have increased where this population has basically taken over. They are no more hardworking than any other group of people. I am just not sure where you are gathering your information but it just isn't realistic. No amnesty and never allowed to be a legal citizen!
If any illegals appear to be hard working it is because they fear if they don't work like a slave their employers will report them and have them deported. Exploited and fearful people don't equate to being "natural" hard workers.
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