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It's REALLY hard to sympathize with all the complainers north of I-80. It appears they actually have no concept of the tax burden that we who live and work south of I-80 bear - let's face it, our government - be it city, county, state, or federal, is taxing all of us into the poor-house and mis-managing our funds, while they all line their pockets with special-interest money. It's not the good citizen's of our fair land, it is our leaders who have created this monster of 'division' among us. Wake up and smell the coffee people!
What makes this even more difficult, is that Chicago (not Springfield) just doesn't seem to get the message that the Democratic approach to politics up there, has failed this state, and left us as the laughing stock for the entire country. We are not talking a horribly failed political agenda for the last few years. We are talking decades of blue policies of spend, spend, spend, and now we are seeing the backlash to such a ignorant mindset! The message that Chicago keeps sending is, "Well, at least our 5 BILLION! in the red, isn't as bad as California's 15 BILLION!" Well that's great Blago. But we aren't California, (which is something like the sixth largest economy in the world!) and the dynamics between us and them are not even close to being the same. Chicago likes to bully it's way and assume credit for everything that this state has. Been when it comes to why Illinois is so corrupt and so badly managed, downstate Illinois quickly becomes such a convienent place to put the blame.
What makes this even more difficult, is that Chicago (not Springfield) just doesn't seem to get the message that the Democratic approach to politics up there, has failed this state, and left us as the laughing stock for the entire country. We are not talking a horribly failed political agenda for the last few years. We are talking decades of blue policies of spend, spend, spend, and now we are seeing the backlash to such a ignorant mindset! The message that Chicago keeps sending is, "Well, at least our 5 BILLION! in the red, isn't as bad as California's 15 BILLION!" Well that's great Blago. But we aren't California, (which is something like the sixth largest economy in the world!) and the dynamics between us and them are not even close to being the same. Chicago likes to bully it's way and assume credit for everything that this state has. Been when it comes to why Illinois is so corrupt and so badly managed, downstate Illinois quickly becomes such a convienent place to put the blame.
Holy crap. I actually agree with you on something. Er, up until the last sentence that is.
I stopped reading this thread at the end of page 6. I was lured in by its title, and, having attended college in Quincy IL, I was curious about the sentiments.
Early on, I grew an affinity to the poster with 'math' in his member name. He seemed objective, and realistic. A number of the posters from the Chicago area became very emotionally involved, and that is why I stopped reading. For clarification of my own point of view, I had, for a time, considered returning to Quincy now that I am retired. When I discovered tax rates there were much higher compared to other places that my wife and I were considering we abandoned this idea.
Moreover the argument about how much money comes from which part of the state to support schools and roads seems to ignore the fact that so much of these funds come from the Feds, and, given who the next president will probably be, it's fair to guess that a lot of money will be pumped into Chicago.
Holy crap. I actually agree with you on something. Er, up until the last sentence that is.
Steve-O. If you ever get the chance to move downstate, I would highly suggest that you do. Your eyes will be opened in a way you never thought possible, and you will trully understand why the state is so divided, along so many lines. I know that it appears to you that we are all simply jealous, or have this intense inferiority complex with the suburbs and their obviously excellent location to Chicago. But in all honesty, if the state was split, and "south" Illinois became the next Iowa, most people would not care in the least. I have lived in both Chicagoland and downstate, and once you see first hand the south of I-80 frustration, you will without a doubt be just as upset as the rest of us. You can say that the same issues happen in NY as too. But people that I have met from upstate NY are far more content with NYC than downstate Illinois is with Chicago. In my opinion, it isn't as if Chicago is the devil incarnated, like some downstaters do. But I will not excuse the fact, that as Chicago has become more into it's own after the 80's, it has become 100% out of touch with it's neighbors, and as a result, has left this state with a huge debt, and countless individuals that are tired of not having their voices heard.
Steve-O. If you ever get the chance to move downstate, I would highly suggest that you do. Your eyes will be opened in a way you never thought possible, and you will trully understand why the state is so divided, along so many lines. I know that it appears to you that we are all simply jealous, or have this intense inferiority complex with the suburbs and their obviously excellent location to Chicago. But in all honesty, if the state was split, and "south" Illinois became the next Iowa, most people would not care in the least. I have lived in both Chicagoland and downstate, and once you see first hand the south of I-80 frustration, you will without a doubt be just as upset as the rest of us. You can say that the same issues happen in NY as too. But people that I have met from upstate NY are far more content with NYC than downstate Illinois is with Chicago. In my opinion, it isn't as if Chicago is the devil incarnated, like some downstaters do. But I will not excuse the fact, that as Chicago has become more into it's own after the 80's, it has become 100% out of touch with it's neighbors, and as a result, has left this state with a huge debt, and countless individuals that are tired of not having their voices heard.
Ive lived outside of Chicagoland and didnt like it. And FYI, I dont think you guys are "jealous" per se, but too critical of Chicagoland. I understand how crooked it is up here, I really do. Heck, EVERYONE up here knows how crooked it is. But you have to understand that we, like you guys down south, have living preferences. We enjoy more urban living, to which Chicago (IMO) is 2nd to none. If Chicago didnt exist, IL's population/revenue/etc would drop off the charts, and the state would essentially become another Iowa. To me, Id find it horribly unattractive (in those regards), whereas someone like you might jump for joy. See where Im coming from? Whatever the situation, Chicago is indeed corrupt and many of you see it differently than those who live up here, and unless Chicago is swallowed up into a giant sinkhole, that will never change. But in the end, if Wisconsin or Michigan declared war on Illinois and invaded us, both you and I (and every other Illinoisan) would be fighting side-by-side in IL's defense, despite our differences. In those regards we are no different and technically neighbors/brothers. Maybe we should all look at it like that from now on. lol
...if Wisconsin or Michigan declared war on Illinois and invaded us, both you and I (and every other Illinoisan) would be fighting side-by-side in IL's defense, despite our differences.
But if they just declared war on Chicago, you might not find much help.
Steve-O. If you ever get the chance to move downstate, I would highly suggest that you do. Your eyes will be opened in a way you never thought possible, and you will trully understand why the state is so divided, along so many lines. I know that it appears to you that we are all simply jealous, or have this intense inferiority complex with the suburbs and their obviously excellent location to Chicago. But in all honesty, if the state was split, and "south" Illinois became the next Iowa, most people would not care in the least. I have lived in both Chicagoland and downstate, and once you see first hand the south of I-80 frustration, you will without a doubt be just as upset as the rest of us. You can say that the same issues happen in NY as too. But people that I have met from upstate NY are far more content with NYC than downstate Illinois is with Chicago. In my opinion, it isn't as if Chicago is the devil incarnated, like some downstaters do. But I will not excuse the fact, that as Chicago has become more into it's own after the 80's, it has become 100% out of touch with it's neighbors, and as a result, has left this state with a huge debt, and countless individuals that are tired of not having their voices heard.
Tons of states have this issue: NYC and NY; Boston and MA; Atlanta and GA; Seattle and WA; Portland and OR...etc. Everyone's got to learn to work more symbiotically...
Ive lived outside of Chicagoland and didnt like it. And FYI, I dont think you guys are "jealous" per se, but too critical of Chicagoland. I understand how crooked it is up here, I really do. Heck, EVERYONE up here knows how crooked it is. But you have to understand that we, like you guys down south, have living preferences. We enjoy more urban living, to which Chicago (IMO) is 2nd to none. If Chicago didnt exist, IL's population/revenue/etc would drop off the charts, and the state would essentially become another Iowa. To me, Id find it horribly unattractive (in those regards), whereas someone like you might jump for joy. See where Im coming from? Whatever the situation, Chicago is indeed corrupt and many of you see it differently than those who live up here, and unless Chicago is swallowed up into a giant sinkhole, that will never change. But in the end, if Wisconsin or Michigan declared war on Illinois and invaded us, both you and I (and every other Illinoisan) would be fighting side-by-side in IL's defense, despite our differences. In those regards we are no different and technically neighbors/brothers. Maybe we should all look at it like that from now on. lol
The whole central/southern Illinois antagonism for "north of I-80" is real down here. My take, however, is that for the average citizen it's more a division of culture.
That is to say, I hear lots of conservative voters complain about the fact that they are outnumbered in state elections by the Chicago Democratic Machine.
I hear lots of folks complain about Gov. Chicagovich and his perceived lack of concern for anything or anyone downstate.
I hear lots of folks complain about the rich city people that have no appreciation for agriCULTURE but helped drive up land prices horribly by 1031 exchanges or just simple investment.
I hear folks complain about the funds that get siphoned off for Chicago projects while we often get the perceived short end.
These are the complaints and there is some legitimacy.
I myself will admit to involuntarily harboring a sort of arrogance about living downstate, simply because I love it here. I love the lack of traffic, the countryside, small towns, slower pace of life, but yet am still close enough to the city if we want to head in to a museum, Cubs game, or whatever. I wouldn't want to have to live anywhere near the Chicagoland area, personally.
That said, I do think the relationship is and should be recognized as symbiotic.
Chicago is the main source of revenue for the state by sheer volume. It is a beautiful, world class city with a lot to offer.
Conversely, downstate Illinois has always helped provide Chicago with the raw materials it needs to function, and in many ways that old-school cattle town Midwestern feel still exists even in the city. We have many parks and getaway spots that are utilized by folks from the city and suburbs. Agriculture/business still helps fuel the engine of this state and deserves respect.
And yes, you are right to say that without Chicago we would be Iowa.
While I personally don't think that's a bad thing, and downstate folks would survive easily without Chicago because survival is their nature, I for one am glad we have a world-class city in our state. The benefits of its existence outweigh the negatives.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runninfiend
The whole central/southern Illinois antagonism for "north of I-80" is real down here. My take, however, is that for the average citizen it's more a division of culture.
That is to say, I hear lots of conservative voters complain about the fact that they are outnumbered in state elections by the Chicago Democratic Machine.
I hear lots of folks complain about Gov. Chicagovich and his perceived lack of concern for anything or anyone downstate.
I hear lots of folks complain about the rich city people that have no appreciation for agriCULTURE but helped drive up land prices horribly by 1031 exchanges or just simple investment.
I hear folks complain about the funds that get siphoned off for Chicago projects while we often get the perceived short end.
These are the complaints and there is some legitimacy.
I myself will admit to involuntarily harboring a sort of arrogance about living downstate, simply because I love it here. I love the lack of traffic, the countryside, small towns, slower pace of life, but yet am still close enough to the city if we want to head in to a museum, Cubs game, or whatever. I wouldn't want to have to live anywhere near the Chicagoland area, personally.
That said, I do think the relationship is and should be recognized as symbiotic.
Chicago is the main source of revenue for the state by sheer volume. It is a beautiful, world class city with a lot to offer.
Conversely, downstate Illinois has always helped provide Chicago with the raw materials it needs to function, and in many ways that old-school cattle town Midwestern feel still exists even in the city. We have many parks and getaway spots that are utilized by folks from the city and suburbs. Agriculture/business still helps fuel the engine of this state and deserves respect.
And yes, you are right to say that without Chicago we would be Iowa.
While I personally don't think that's a bad thing, and downstate folks would survive easily without Chicago because survival is their nature, I for one am glad we have a world-class city in our state. The benefits of its existence outweigh the negatives.
I agree with you 100%,and I,like a few other posters in this thread feel like we get the crappy end of the stick down here and when we don't get the crappy end of the stick as far as funding and northern "goodwill" are concerned,we end up with a dumbazzed ballpark in Marion that we couldn't care less about as a whole.
My "personal" problem with the Chicagoans that move down here I've already posted about in this thread....it's their bigheaded attitude.It keeps them from being accepted into the communitys around here and it's the reason that over the last few years property owners who sell to them get a less than warm reception around their hometowns now.All they have to do is relax when they move down here(isn't that what they move here for?It dang sure ain't for the good paying jobs because there are none) and follow the old saying "When in Rome,do as the Romans" and they would be greeted with open arms,but that is not the way the VAST majority do.Lose the attitude and come visit this area.We'd love to have you with a laid back frame of mind,but you'll NOT find a welcome wagon waiting for you if you forget to check your arrogance at the door.
Oh and btw...to the gentleman (and you know who you are) that PMed with the "tough guy " stuff on another site.All I can say to you is while you guys are playing video games,we are working jobs and then coming home and working feeding cattle or working farms,so anytime you think you are tougher up there than the folks around here, feel free to come give simular statements in person at one of our local watering holes(any of them you may chose) and see what happens next.Be sure and annouce when you walk in the door for all to hear that you are from Franklin Park and you are here to "school" them,but make sure you are insured first.Just friendly advice.
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Er, up until the last sentence that is.
