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Old 01-11-2011, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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You know I'm sure that we have lots of Muslim people here in Canada. They are very good people and for the largest part have left all their old tribal ways and extremism at home wherever they have come from. We don't have Shia and Suny Muslims fighting with each other. My local Pizza store is owned by a Persian Canadian who happens to be A Bahi. In his home of Iran he and any like him are horrible persecuted, even murdered for their beliefs. Well in his store he has a muslim Afghan, A muslim lady from India, a roman catholic from Poland, an atheist, and a couple of secular Canadian kids. They all get along great and have a very happy workplace. That's the beauty of a place like Canada and the USA. Most people come to these countries to leave their problems behind them. I agree with you that a lot of the problems in the Islamic world are far more cultural and tribal than anything else.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:35 PM
 
275 posts, read 671,539 times
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I think OP is confused because the media reports many extreme practices as if they are general practices for all Muslims. Islam covers many countries. There are lot of varying practices among these countries that have nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with cultural practices, limited education, ignorance, poverty and historical political problems. Just an example, both prostitution and belly dancing is and have been legal in Turkey for at least 100 years. Flirting between men and women are completely acceptable and even something like abortion which is such a contentious issue in the US is legal in Turkey. Their women obtained their right to vote in 1930 (long before most European countries by the way) and more than 50% of their attorneys are women. These are just some examples from a country which is 99% Muslim. As you can see, practices will differ based on culture and political systems. Turkey happens to be a secular country but their people are extremely faithful to Islam and it is not a contradiction. There is a way to be faithful yet tolerant of others who want to be belly dancers
Most studies show people who personally know a Muslim, tend to be less discriminatory when it comes to Muslims. Unfortunately, both sides are blind to their ignorance about each other and it is really sad. Most Muslims have the same issues and problems everyone else have. Remember, a famous person once said "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". Life is too short to waste on hatred and bigotry.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:16 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyvictoria View Post
I think OP is confused because the media reports many extreme practices as if they are general practices for all Muslims. Islam covers many countries. There are lot of varying practices among these countries that have nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with cultural practices, limited education, ignorance, poverty and historical political problems. Just an example, both prostitution and belly dancing is and have been legal in Turkey for at least 100 years. Flirting between men and women are completely acceptable and even something like abortion which is such a contentious issue in the US is legal in Turkey. Their women obtained their right to vote in 1930 (long before most European countries by the way) and more than 50% of their attorneys are women. These are just some examples from a country which is 99% Muslim. As you can see, practices will differ based on culture and political systems. Turkey happens to be a secular country but their people are extremely faithful to Islam and it is not a contradiction. There is a way to be faithful yet tolerant of others who want to be belly dancers
Most studies show people who personally know a Muslim, tend to be less discriminatory when it comes to Muslims. Unfortunately, both sides are blind to their ignorance about each other and it is really sad. Most Muslims have the same issues and problems everyone else have. Remember, a famous person once said "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". Life is too short to waste on hatred and bigotry.
This is true, all well and good, and very idealistic . . . but there are entire Muslim societies with many extremists and a significant support population of silent jihadist sympathizers with global reach and resources presenting a threat to Western societies. Nothing like that exists from any other group. Pretending this is not the case . . . is no different than ignoring Hitler and the National Socialists as just German extremists was.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:32 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,894 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
You know I'm sure that we have lots of Muslim people here in Canada. They are very good people and for the largest part have left all their old tribal ways and extremism at home wherever they have come from. We don't have Shia and Suny Muslims fighting with each other. My local Pizza store is owned by a Persian Canadian who happens to be A Bahi. In his home of Iran he and any like him are horrible persecuted, even murdered for their beliefs. Well in his store he has a muslim Afghan, A muslim lady from India, a roman catholic from Poland, an atheist, and a couple of secular Canadian kids. They all get along great and have a very happy workplace. That's the beauty of a place like Canada and the USA. Most people come to these countries to leave their problems behind them. I agree with you that a lot of the problems in the Islamic world are far more cultural and tribal than anything else.
I hope all the best for them .
I appreciate your honesty & i am glad we have an agreement .
Thank you .
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:43 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,894 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyvictoria View Post
I think OP is confused because the media reports many extreme practices as if they are general practices for all Muslims. Islam covers many countries. There are lot of varying practices among these countries that have nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with cultural practices, limited education, ignorance, poverty and historical political problems. Just an example, both prostitution and belly dancing is and have been legal in Turkey for at least 100 years. Flirting between men and women are completely acceptable and even something like abortion which is such a contentious issue in the US is legal in Turkey. Their women obtained their right to vote in 1930 (long before most European countries by the way) and more than 50% of their attorneys are women. These are just some examples from a country which is 99% Muslim. As you can see, practices will differ based on culture and political systems. Turkey happens to be a secular country but their people are extremely faithful to Islam and it is not a contradiction. There is a way to be faithful yet tolerant of others who want to be belly dancers
Most studies show people who personally know a Muslim, tend to be less discriminatory when it comes to Muslims. Unfortunately, both sides are blind to their ignorance about each other and it is really sad. Most Muslims have the same issues and problems everyone else have. Remember, a famous person once said "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle". Life is too short to waste on hatred and bigotry.
I could not say it any better .
It's a rare thing to see someone from the west who knows that much
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:56 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,894 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is true, all well and good, and very idealistic . . . but there are entire Muslim societies with many extremists and a significant support population of silent jihadist sympathizers with global reach and resources presenting a threat to Western societies. Nothing like that exists from any other group. Pretending this is not the case . . . is no different than ignoring Hitler and the National Socialists as just German extremists was.

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Old 01-12-2011, 07:48 AM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
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Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Very intellectual. I have studied Islam intensely academically, squall . . . so your propagandist nonsense falls on educated (and deaf to your deceptions) scholarly ears.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:48 PM
 
527 posts, read 894,377 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Very intellectual. I have studied Islam intensely academically, squall . . . so your propagandist nonsense falls on educated (and deaf to your deceptions) scholarly ears.
Rep +1 for you
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Northern Ireland
27 posts, read 28,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
The real question is what levels of understanding do you have on Hadiths ... ??
But first Please .. dont jump from one point to another !!!
Are you avoiding to replay ?!!
This clearly show that you hav no idea of what you were talking about .
You have to admit that you didt now that the word beat has so many different meaning in Arabic language ... that Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) who is every muslim idol never lay a hand on a women in his life .
That he said " The best of those who do not hit " .
When we have agreement on that then we can discuss anything you want
The sky's the limit
Maybe the word does have more than one meaning, but that doesn't change the fact that translations of the verse by Islamic scholars such as Muhammad Asad, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Abdel Haleem etc.. translate that the verse justifies wife-beating. The translations of the Quran by these scholars have been generally accepted as correct.

The point I'm making is that most translations of the verse seem to support what I am saying.

So, back to my question, what Hadiths do you regard as authentic?
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:10 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,894 times
Reputation: 75
Marz123
Quote:
Maybe the word does have more than one meaning,
Thank you
Quote:
but that doesn't change the fact that translations of the verse by Islamic scholars such as Muhammad Asad, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Abdel Haleem etc.. translate that the verse justifies wife-beating. The translations of the Quran by these scholars have been generally accepted as correct.
You just picked 3 names from thousand of Islamic scholars and expect me to believe that it reprsent general Muslims scholars !!
Quote:
The point I'm making is that most translations of the verse seem to support what I am saying.
There you said it ... translations .. not explanation of the word !!
We dont go by translation alone .. word have to be explaned by most of Islamic scholars for the generals to take it ... it calls " ejma" .
Quote:
So, back to my question, what Hadiths do you regard as authentic?
After you finish answering dear friend :
Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) who is every muslim idol never lay a hand on a women in his life .
That he said " The best of those who do not hit " .
So are you telling me that Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him ) didn't fallow gods order to beat his wifes
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