Question for Woodrow (worship)

[Jim_a49]

And I seriously doubt this God you claim is so egotistical, so self centered, he needs billions of people to constantly tell him how cool he is.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Jim_a49

And I seriously doubt this God you claim is so egotistical, so self centered, he needs billions of people to constantly tell him how cool he is.

We believe Allaah(swt) has no needs. He does not need our worship nor anything from us.

But he did set up life as a learning experience and a path to achieve heaven. Part of that is the practice of worship so we may learn of Allaah(swt) and make an informed decision on choosing the path we follow.
Some people do not desire to follow the path that leads to Allaah(swt)

That is their own choice.



The important thing is they make their choice from knowledge and of their own free will.

[iamsiam]

Originally Posted by Jim_a49

Right out of the gate, Jesus, if he existed, was not a muslim, nor were his apostles.

Islam would not be invented in it's present form, for another 800 years.

I will assume this means that what the Quran or Gospels portray about Jesus Christ is not of interest to you?...that's OK..........

The word "muslim" as used in the Quran, means "one who submits(to God)". Even Christians agree that Jesus Christ was "one who submits to God". Apparently the Gospels also portray him this way. ----as were the Prophets Moses, Noah, Adam,....etc (pbut).......

If God has no needs why would he Guide humanity towards Tawheed(Unity)?----Because there is much benefit (to humanity) in this concept.

Tawheed(Unity), in its most simplest form means "One God".
(It can be understood as a "world-view"/(Overall)Perspective.)

1) It means that ALL humanity, irrespective of the labels we divide ourselves by, were created by the SAME One God.
2) It means that God's compassion and mercy extend to ALL humanity (and all of God's creations)
3) It means there are no hierarchies. In front of God all are of equal worth, none superior or inferior to another. (Unity)
4)If there is only One God in existence, then all humanity prays/worships to the same One God irrespective of our different concepts, our different paths, our different labels.
5)Altruism is accepted by many to be the most noble human virtue...when we (humanity) "do for God" (worship by actions) altruism is promoted. Altruistic attitudes promote happiness (Eudaimonic happiness) which in turn promotes human health.
How Different Types of Happiness Affect Our Fundamental Being, Influence Genes
6) All creation belongs to the One God, is from the One God and will return to the One God.

The concept of Tawheed (Unity) has profound (and interesting) influence on how we (humanity) understand ethico-moral principles.

For example---Principles derived from a perspective of hierarchies (that some are more entitled than others) skews Justice...so....for example, in the preamble to the U.S. constitution this is what is stated, among other things, "...secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity". The way this is understood by Americans and their government is that Americans---as witnessed by current events--- are entitled to freedom and security even at the expense of denying freedom and security to others. So, in order to keep Americans "safe" it is justified to bomb and devastate other countries. Major collateral damage (humans) and targeting of infrastructure and resources as well as "long wars" are also justified by the American military and government.

If we understood Justice from the Principle of Tawheed(Unity) we would see that ALL humanity are created Equal (Of equivalent human value). Therefore ALL (human beings)have an equal right to freedom and security irrespective of national labels. This means that all nations (and their leaders) are responsible to promote peaceful resolutions to conflicts to the best of their ability and when such is not possible and using arms is the only option--- to speedily resolve armed conflict with the least damage to property, resources and humans (all of God's creations).

Another example is the hierarchical principle of "too big to fail"---a policy based on the idea that one group of people are entitled to their wealth at the expense of the other (majority). This again skews Justice.

But Tawheed (Unity) promotes policies based on two concepts 1) All humanity is Equal (equivalent human value) and 2) all wealth belongs to God. This means that wealth is not the "entitlement" of the few---but a "right" of all. So good economic systems must not only promote the development of "profits" but also their equitable distribution (social justice).


One could point out that Tawheed(Unity) as understood above seems Universal and one does not have to believe in God in order to implement its understanding of Equality, Justice, Rights and Responsibilities ...etc. Yes, ---I agree---yet, when we take the human element out of the establishment of universal principle and instead attribute it to a Universal God, we break "Hierarchical perspective". If one group has more "right" to establish universal principles than others----then we have maintained a hierarchical perspective.......

(Opposite of Tawheed (Unity) is Shirk (Division) = Many Gods.)

[Jim_a49]

A little misleading.

When a culture invents a word that says a person submits to God, it does not automatically mean all people and religions are that word.

People have submitted to their own particular God, since people first walked the earth.

As of today there are over 3000 Gods represented on earth, and some of these Gods, do not work and play well with others.

[iamsiam]

We can understand "Muslim" as a label. When used as a label, there is a criteria that tells us who is included/excluded. This is because identity and community are important to human beings.

The word "humanity" is very inclusive and regardless of what nationality or race or ethnicity a human being might be---they are "humanity". Likewise, there are other inclusive words also......

The Quran uses "muslim" to denote a spiritual attitude. There are 3 levels/degrees of spirituality in the Quran. So, someone who has the spiritual attitude of "one who submits (to God)" would be a "muslim".

It does not matter how many concepts of the Divine there are in the world---these are simply various human expressions of understanding the Divine Reality. Tawheed (Unity)----or what Christians like to call "radical monotheism"----is a world-view/perspective that promotes Unity/Universality. It is a way of thinking that encourages humanity towards peace, tolerance, respect, equality, justice...etc. This idea of Oneness/Unity is not unique to Islam---other Eastern religions also have the concept---but to me---Islamic/Quranic concept is one that is most complete and comprehensive.

[Jim_a49]

A problem here is the nature of the God you are submitting yourself to.

[iamsiam]

Theology (nature of God) is important in the Western Christian world. IMO, the Western Christian-centric definition of "religion" centers around theology. For many other religions, the definition of religion is not theology but "way of life". In other words, how a world-view/perspective is applied to life/living.

Islamic theology---IMO, is pretty simple---One God.

[Jim_a49]

Originally Posted by iamsiam

Theology (nature of God) is important in the Western Christian world. IMO, the Western Christian-centric definition of "religion" centers around theology. For many other religions, the definition of religion is not theology but "way of life". In other words, how a world-view/perspective is applied to life/living.

Islamic theology---IMO, is pretty simple---One God.

That does not even touch the surface of Islamic theology

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Jim_a49

That does not even touch the surface of Islamic theology

I personally find that to be at least 99% of Islam. We can disobey every other aspect of Islam and still enter heaven.

On the other hand we can obey every aspect of Islamic theology and will still go to eternal hell, if we do not subscribe to the belief of one, non-divisible God(swt) that has no equals, partners or progeny.

[Jim_a49]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

I personally find that to be at least 99% of Islam. We can disobey every other aspect of Islam and still enter heaven.

On the other hand we can obey every aspect of Islamic theology and will still go to eternal hell, if we do not subscribe to the belief of one, non-divisible God(swt) that has no equals, partners or progeny.

But here we are dealing with your perception, which differs from Islam all over the world.