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So if allah didn't want people drinking wine and getting intoxicated, why did he make wine intoxicating? in fact, why did Allah put alcohol on Earth at all?
The universe and everything in it is created to function underphysical laws ot a material world. No one gets any breaks we all face the same results of the physical laws of the universe.
Earth was not created for our pleasuere, it was creted to give us face the good, bad and ugly of a physical universe that operates under the outcome of physics.
If we did not live in a universe that presents reasons to doubt the existence of God(swt) we would not have freedom of choice in believing or not believing. For us to truly have free choice we must have both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe.
If you had indisputable, verifiable proof of everything required for you to believe in God(swt) would you be able to not believe? You would not have freedom of choice. Just as you can not choose to not believe air exists.
So if allah didn't want people drinking wine and getting intoxicated, why did he make wine intoxicating? in fact, why did Allah put alcohol on Earth at all?
Did Allah put alcohol on earth or people created it?
The universe and everything in it is created to function underphysical laws ot a material world.
That's right. There is no supernatural. You have identified that just now, but you operate under cognitive dissonance. If only you could identify the truth in what you just said you might be able to stop your need for mysticism and deal with reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
No one gets any breaks we all face the same results of the physical laws of the universe.
That's right again. No amount of faith in the supernatural, no heartfelt prayer will help you. There are no miracles and no supernatural gods. Nothing is outside the LAW of identity. No argument will get you from this world to a supernatural world. No method of inference will take you from existence to a “super-existence.â€
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
Earth was not created for our pleasuere, it was creted to give us face the good, bad and ugly of a physical universe that operates under the outcome of physics.
And here is where you become irrational and that cognitive dissonance comes into play. You argue for physical LAWS of a material world and then jump to the nonsense of a supernatural creator who exists outside of all physical laws of a material world. I am not going there with you. If I told you there were invisible alien souls called body thetans that cling to our bodies and are caused by an ancient incident caused by a galactic dictator named Xenu, would you believe me? That is the kind of nonsense you expect from us. Only far worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
If we did not live in a universe that presents reasons to doubt the existence of God(swt) we would not have freedom of choice in believing or not believing. For us to truly have free choice we must have both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe.
If we did not live in a universe that presents reasons to doubt the existence of body thetans we would not have freedom of choice in believing or not believing. For us to truly have free choice we must have both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe in body thetans.
And explain how we need both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe to have free will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
If you had indisputable, verifiable proof of everything required for you to believe in God(swt) would you be able to not believe? You would not have freedom of choice. Just as you can not choose to not believe air exists.
Invalid question. The very definition of such a being throws in it complete contradiction with reality and the process of deriving a conclusion step by step from the evidence of the senses, each step being taken in accordance with the laws of logic.. There can be no proof of that which has no basis in reality.
That's right. There is no supernatural. You have identified that just now, but you operate under cognitive dissonance. If only you could identify the truth in what you just said you might be able to stop your need for mysticism and deal with reality.
That's right again. No amount of faith in the supernatural, no heartfelt prayer will help you. There are no miracles and no supernatural gods. Nothing is outside the LAW of identity. No argument will get you from this world to a supernatural world. No method of inference will take you from existence to a “super-existence.â€
And here is where you become irrational and that cognitive dissonance comes into play. You argue for physical LAWS of a material world and then jump to the nonsense of a supernatural creator who exists outside of all physical laws of a material world. I am not going there with you. If I told you there were invisible alien souls called body thetans that cling to our bodies and are caused by an ancient incident caused by a galactic dictator named Xenu, would you believe me? That is the kind of nonsense you expect from us. Only far worse.
If we did not live in a universe that presents reasons to doubt the existence of body thetans we would not have freedom of choice in believing or not believing. For us to truly have free choice we must have both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe in body thetans.
And explain how we need both reasons to believe and reasons not to believe to have free will.
Invalid question. The very definition of such a being throws in it complete contradiction with reality and the process of deriving a conclusion step by step from the evidence of the senses, each step being taken in accordance with the laws of logic.. There can be no proof of that which has no basis in reality.
In order to have free will we must be able to see the possibilities of all sides. Free will requires having choices, in order to have choices we need to know what the choices are.
Free will also carries with it tremendous responsibility. It is our respnsibility to constantly rewview what choices we have. the more choices we find the more freedom we have. Responsibility also means we must evaluate the probable consequences of our choices. finally we must know that we alone are responsible for the result of our choices and we alone will face the gain or loss that result from our choices.
Our lifetime is never static, it is in a constant flow of seeking, investigating evaluating and choosing. Nobody can do it for us, nobody can teach us how to do it, we alone must seek all possibilities and challenge them, never accepting blindly and always evaluating.
Prove my premise is faulty.
It is obvious your major premise is false because there is no proof God exists as real.
Humans invent God to soothe their existential psychological angst.
You had stated:
1. God cannot exists as real.
2. Therefore the Quran can only be authored by a human or a group of people.
You have no proof that God doesn't exist. Your premise is faulty. Therefore, your conclusion is also faulty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
The Quran was supposed recited over 23 years.
The earlier verses were committed in texts somewhere and Allah's words cannot be removed, that is why they cannot get rid or cause it to be forgotten. The only recourse is to abrogate them.
All verses were committed in text somewhere and also memorized by many Hafiz from the outset. Therefore, if anyone tried to change the text, Hafiz will not let anyone change a word. And if any Hafiz changed a word in his memory by mistake, text and and the other Hafiz will stop the change in its infancy. This is how Allah's words in the Qur'an cannot be changed.
By the way, the point you have just made is proof enough from you that the Qur'an cannot be from any human after Muhammad (pbuh) but only from Allah, and all of them knew it, the reason they dare not take out "cause to be forgotten" because these are Words of Allah as the whole Qur'an is Word of Allah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
In this case, abrogation meant override or overrule. It meant "put an end to" the earlier verse without deleting the older verse because Allah's words cannot be removed.
You are contradicting yourself by basing your argument on premise that you have often rejected. If you now think that they did not remove earlier verses because these were Allah's words, you cannot assume at the same time that a human or a group of people wrote the Qur'an then tried to correct their own mistakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
I have answered that earlier, see post #35.
You did not answered my current question in post 35.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
The question of abrogation will naturally lead to the authorship of the Quran. Tracing to the author[s] of the Quran resolve the question of abrogation in 2:105.
Actually reason behind this whole silly argument by the unbelievers has been given in 2:105. 2:106 was a in response to the reason mentioned in 2:105.
In order to have free will we must be able to see the possibilities of all sides. Free will requires having choices, in order to have choices we need to know what the choices are.
Free will also carries with it tremendous responsibility. It is our respnsibility to constantly rewview what choices we have. the more choices we find the more freedom we have. Responsibility also means we must evaluate the probable consequences of our choices. finally we must know that we alone are responsible for the result of our choices and we alone will face the gain or loss that result from our choices.
Our lifetime is never static, it is in a constant flow of seeking, investigating evaluating and choosing. Nobody can do it for us, nobody can teach us how to do it, we alone must seek all possibilities and challenge them, never accepting blindly and always evaluating.
Do you need to see the possibilities of non-gravity to have free will? Do you need to see the possibilities of astrology, of having sex with animals, of jumping out of 10 story windows so you can fly? There are many fantasies that are outrightly impossible, because they contradict already known facts. And there are other fantasies that are mere arbitrary inventions; even if you cannot specify facts which contradict these inventions, you have absolutely no basis to hypothesize them.
Free will does require choice. What is the fundamental choice regarding free will?
Why do I need to constantly review my choice not to have sex with animals, my choice to be honest, my choice to be moral, my choice to adhere to reality?
Yes, people teach us how to make good choices and how to think logically. Yes, we make our own decisions, but we do not make them in a vacuum.
You have chosen a path based on mysticism, not reality. Your metaphysics is rooted in subjective reality and that will carry through to your epistemology and your morality. You will make choices, but based on a terrible scam.
1. God cannot exists as real.
2. Therefore the Quran can only be authored by a human or a group of people.
You have no proof that God doesn't exist. Your premise is faulty. Therefore, your conclusion is also faulty.
You have an invisible dancing fairy on your head! PROVE ME WRONG! If you cannot prove me wrong then you must accept that you have an invisible dancing fairy on your head.
I Go back to complete the explanation of the meaning of Nnasseha
Muslims believe that this verse the word of God
Who speaks here is God
The words of God it has meanings always????
He says canceled and forget
This attempt by the Muslims in the interpretation of the word NnassehaI am looking for how the forget of God??????
But if we wondered, saying: What is the ruling of those verses umpires in our time today? We say: we find judgment in the Koran, saying the Almighty and the Almighty: (What's copying of verse or Nnasseha distanced okay one or one similar) 106-2. This means that the Almighty has made it in the forgotten rule) then he knows oblivion (which comes from the forgotten and forgotten, only Vemoduah verses umpires respect, which in the aggregate form as we have said or book as God Almighty in the Qur'an
this from islmice books شروح الحديث
شرح النووي على مسلم
يحيي بن شرف أبو زكريا النوويTell me Sweden bin Said, told us Ali bin Msohr for David, from Abu bin Abi war black father said sent Abu Musa Ashari to readers of the people of Basra and entered the three hundred men may have read the Koran said to you the people of Basra choice and their readers Vatloh not Atouln you term Vtkso hearts, as measured hearts of who came before you and I we read Surah we liken her to the length and intensity innocently Vonciha However, I have saved them if the son of Adam and religions of money to craveth Wadia Third and fills the cavity son of Adam but dust and we read Surah we liken her to one of the rosaries Vonciha but I memorized her, my ye who believe, not what you say you do not do a certificate is recorded in your necks Vtsolon the day of Resurrection
forgotten.
and this opinion of an muslem
A. At least, no longer form part of the Ottoman verses copied Koran verses nor forgotten. It is known that within the copyist and abrogated verses copied rude, reading and writing, and there are signs forgotten apostle before you keep it on or before that dictated or before written clerks revelation, perhaps forgotten by everyone after that, and did not re-descend again, or at least it did not re-descend the same way . Which is confirmed by the verse: (the copying of verse or Nnasseha distanced okay one or one similar) Sura, verse 106.
Breastfeeding is the great Quranic verse by interpolating
Tell us Yahya bin Yahya said, I read the owner Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr from Amra Aisha he said it was later revealed the Koran ten feedings Information denied then five Preheat the information and he died Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him and they read in the Koran
and this verse
Sahih Muslim Book breastfeeding .. .. door prohibition five feedings
and this from islamic book
Thus, there is a lesson as he claimed some outs of condemnation feeding Salem, a senior, because the story of Salem was the first migration, was the great-feeding at the time legitimate then copied, and thus said Aisha, may Allah bless them said: "It was as revealed from the Qur'an: Ten feedings Information denied then Preheat: five information and he died Messenger of Allah weakness in reading from the Koran. "in the novel by Ibn Majah, and Ahmad, Aisha - God - said:" I've got a verse of stoning, and the large feeding ten days, and I've been in the newspaper under my bed when he died The Messenger of Allah and Glna his death, domestic income Voklha "
this from islamic book
Sunan Daaraqutni - Book breastfeeding
3833 - Na: Abu Hamid Muhammad ibn Harun, Na: Mohammed bin Yahya hyperbolic, Na: Abdul Supreme bin Abdul higher, Na: Muhammad ibn Ishaq, Abdullah ibn Abi Bakr, his age, Aisha, and Ibn al-Qasim, from his father, Aisha, said: We have inflicted great verse of stoning and feeding ten days, we have been in the newspaper under my bed when he died, the Messenger of Allah (r) Astglna his death went domesticus Voklha.
Do you need to see the possibilities of non-gravity to have free will? Do you need to see the possibilities of astrology, of having sex with animals, of jumping out of 10 story windows so you can fly? There are many fantasies that are outrightly impossible, because they contradict already known facts. And there are other fantasies that are mere arbitrary inventions; even if you cannot specify facts which contradict these inventions, you have absolutely no basis to hypothesize them.
Free will does require choice. What is the fundamental choice regarding free will?
Why do I need to constantly review my choice not to have sex with animals, my choice to be honest, my choice to be moral, my choice to adhere to reality?
Yes, people teach us how to make good choices and how to think logically. Yes, we make our own decisions, but we do not make them in a vacuum.
You have chosen a path based on mysticism, not reality. Your metaphysics is rooted in subjective reality and that will carry through to your epistemology and your morality. You will make choices, but based on a terrible scam.
I believe it is Lin Yutang who in one of his books, has a very good way of describing what I am speaking about..
He calls it the "Fans of Destiny" in which he describes our choices as being like a Chinese hand fan.
we begin life at the bottom of the fan.The ribs in the fan are our choices. When we do not make a conscious choice we simply move along with the flow. When we reach the end of the rib, a new fan opens and again we either make a choice or just go with the flow. We are constantly reaching the end of a fan rib and new fans pop-up in front of us.
It is out choice to either just go with the flow or consciously make the effort to evaluate our choices at any moment.
The more skilled we become at identifying when we have choices and what those choices are, the greater are our number of choice. True free choice comes when we discover we have unlimited choices and by analyzing each choice we gain control over what we become.
we alone choose our choices or select to just float along nonchalantly without a care, worry or being an active participant in our future.
we must constantly evaluate and see if we have a choice, what the choices are and what would be the result of each choice.
That is free will, that is having self control of our life that is accepting responsibility for our choices and knowing we made the choice freely and it was the best choice available.. It is up to each of us to always analyze, question, evaluate and make the best possible choice.
Last edited by Woodrow LI; 05-29-2016 at 08:11 PM..
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