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Thanks everyone for the advice and I really appreciate the honesty and frankness! Here are the latest developments and I hope you guys can continue to be frank and honest with me. I'm a recent grad and this is my first time navigating the job market and so this is all very new and very, very stressful.
Job A has been keeping in contact via email and has been very responsive to me. The director said that her HR contact has told her that it's unlikely that the university will be able to get an answer to her before the end of the week. I want to stress that this is a university, not a for-profit firm or company. And I have been assured by multiple people that universities do indeed take a long time in responding. Anyways, she has asked that I try to get an extension from the other job because I am her top choice and they would be "crushed" if they couldn't get me the green light in time.
Then, another person I interviewed with (she is a director of a program at the org) emailed me from abroad, where she is doing research, stressing that I am absolutely their top choice and that they would hate to miss out working with me. Both of them have also stressed that this job will not disappear because I'm someone they absolutely need for the org to function, and their budget for next year has already been approved.
If I were getting played, why would they be SO responsive and keep stressing I'm their top choice? A colleague of mine who works at a university says that she didn't hear anything from the university when they were pursuing another candidate and it was only after that candidate declined that she was contacted by them. I'm inclined to say that they're being genuine and honest with me, but I'm not sure.
Also, I can't stall job B too much longer, as they want me to start July 1. And I don't want to start Job B and then quit. I know a lot of people don't have a problem with that, but it's a moral compass thing for me. It would completely derail Job B's work and make their lives much more difficult. Plus, I would burn all bridges there, which I really don't want to do.
Allow me to give you some more measured perspective on what might REALLY be going on.
I used to recruit doctors for a large, well-known research entity. We had lots of high level positions where WE went after candidates, but we also had lots of lower level just-passed-the-boards and-want-a change-from-where-I did-my residency positions. If you were a skilled surgeon, we courted you and put up with your demands and BS until we got you. If you were a relatively recently licensed MD, we strung you along until we filled our quotas, knowing that there were lots of hopsitals hiring and our bumper crop of new ENTs or gynos might get a better offer elsewhere or someone in our org might have a vested interest in hiring an ex student instead of one of our candidates.
It was my job to be responsive, to keep the candidates "warm" and build rapport. It made it harder for the candidate to say no to me. But when it came to new talent, we weren't nearly as invested as with our highly specialized and experienced talent. But I often said I was 'crushed' if they took an offer at another entity.
We also cut positions. Many was the time when I had tentatively offered or discussed the possibility of a job on our staff, only to sit in a meeting two hours later and learn that 3 positions were winnowed down to one. That made two phone calls in which I had to say "yes, you were our top choice, but unfortunately we can't fill the position at this time. We will be in touch as soon as something changes." This was typical. Everyone was a top choice until I couldn't hire them. Sometimes, I could use the excuse that some other department was 'holding off on approving new hires due to changes in leadership' or some other nonsense. But again, this was typical.
My point? You are a recent grad. Though you may be very smart and personable, and undoubtedly they like you, hiring practices can be cruel. Please do yourself a favor and:
1. Try to negotiate for a later start date for Job B or
2. Flat out take Job B.
In this thread, we went from Wednesday to the end of the week in one fell swoop. Don't be so set on this particular position that you turn down a great opportunity. And get used to the way that things work. I know its stressful and can seem deceptive, but these people are going to be paying you, not taking you out for coffee and a chat. A whole different set of rules apply.
Please note, for what its worth, everyone seems to be saying the same thing here. There are lots of recent grads out there who need work. This could be a lesson you learn the hard way.
Last edited by confusedasusual; 06-25-2013 at 01:38 PM..
I admire your ethics in not wanting to take B and then back out. Bravo.
With that said, do not expect to be treated with the same level of ethics. I have seen positions I would have sworn were a done deal fall apart at the last minute. The folks communicating with you from Job A may be totally sincere, but if something happens outside their control to derail your candidacy, they most likely cant help you.
If you've waited as long as possible, you should take the offer you have. Also remember, no job offer is official until you have it in writing.
Add me to those who say take B and then quit if A actually makes a formal offer. You said B needs an answer by Wednesday, but they probably won't want you to start until Monday.
You seem to have a very thick head about this situation and don't seem to want to listen to folks.
TAKE JOB B.
This doesn't mean you cannot work at Job A later. If job A comes through, then you take it. if you choose. And you quit job B and you leave it off your resume. You need to put yourself first these days.
There is a 50% chance that Job A will fall through EVEN IF THE BOSS WANTS YOU.
I was on a team and they were ready to make an offer to the top choice. The day before the offer was to be made, there was a freeze on all open positions. Every position was deleted. The job never got filled.
You can do what you want, but no matter what they say until you see that formal offer letter nothing is a done deal. Words are just words - they can say oh they are sure it will happen, they'll be crushed if they don't get you, etc. but none of that is an offer with a formal invitation for you to work there and a starting date.
Good point. But I spoke with my former colleague/contact at another university and she says that, across the board, universities move very slow. While it's a downside in terms of hiring, they also provide better benefits and have more job security. Job A is a position this place needs to have and they're committed to keeping it. Job B seems to be a growing org, but I don't have as good a grasp on their stability.
Anyways, all logic says to accept Job B if Job A doesn't get approval in time. But Job A has more interesting work and would help me more in my future path/educational goals (possibly with tuition remission). Plus, I clicked a lot better with the staff of Job A. The only thing that gets me nervous is how long this approval process is taking.
Why are you asking someone who :
a) doesn't work where you are interested in working and
b) has no personal knowledge of your pending job offer situation?
Methinks this person is telling you what you want to hear. All of us are telling you the opposite, and you seem to be clinging to the "wouldn't it be great?!" scenario.
A university, federal entity or any other large bureaucracy can indeed take a long time to respond to things. In the meantime, you probably have expenses and need to feed yourself. Take Job B.
Allow me to give you some more measured perspective on what might REALLY be going on.
I used to recruit doctors for a large, well-known research entity. We had lots of high level positions where WE went after candidates, but we also had lots of lower level just-passed-the-boards and-want-a change-from-where-I did-my residency positions. If you were a skilled surgeon, we courted you and put up with your demands and BS until we got you. If you were a relatively recently licensed MD, we strung you along until we filled our quotas, knowing that there were lots of hopsitals hiring and our bumper crop of new ENTs or gynos might get a better offer elsewhere or someone in our org might have a vested interest in hiring an ex student instead of one of our candidates.
It was my job to be responsive, to keep the candidates "warm" and build rapport. It made it harder for the candidate to say no to me. But when it came to new talent, we weren't nearly as invested as with our highly specialized and experienced talent. But I often said I was 'crushed' if they took an offer at another entity.
We also cut positions. Many was the time when I had tentatively offered or discussed the possibility of a job on our staff, only to sit in a meeting two hours later and learn that 3 positions were winnowed down to one. That made two phone calls in which I had to say "yes, you were our top choice, but unfortunately we can't fill the position at this time. We will be in touch as soon as something changes." This was typical. Everyone was a top choice until I couldn't hire them. Sometimes, I could use the excuse that some other department was 'holding off on approving new hires due to changes in leadership' or some other nonsense. But again, this was typical.
My point? You are a recent grad. Though you may be very smart and personable, and undoubtedly they like you, hiring practices can be cruel. Please do yourself a favor and:
1. Try to negotiate for a later start date for Job B or
2. Flat out take Job B.
In this thread, we went from Wednesday to the end of the week in one fell swoop. Don't be so set on this particular position that you turn down a great opportunity. And get used to the way that things work. I know its stressful and can seem deceptive, but these people are going to be paying you, not taking you out for coffee and a chat. A whole different set of rules apply.
Please note, for what its worth, everyone seems to be saying the same thing here. There are lots of recent grads out there who need work. This could be a lesson you learn the hard way.
Amen! OP, read this post.
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