Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-29-2013, 11:57 AM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,365,132 times
Reputation: 1578

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Here are my two questions, ones I've always wanted to ask:

1) I live in a prosperous Southern suburb with two different synagogues nearby. On Fridays and Saturdays, the members walk to and from temple. However, it is a very hilly area with curvy roads and few sidewalks, making it both difficult for the elderly members and very dangerous on Friday nights.

Most of the members wear black at all times, so one must be a very cautious driver due to their lack of visibility. But I really worry that someone is going to be struck by a careless driver one day.

So my question is this: While the Torah forbids work on the Sabbath, shouldn't it be considered to be actually less work for some to drive their cars to temple than to schlepp it up and down a very steep hill? And does the Torah forbid the wearing of reflective gear to ensure the safety of pedestrians?

2) Our suburb is roughly 30-35% Jewish. The teachers make allowance for homework and test during holy times such as Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. During the holiday band and choral programs, the programs are equal parts Christian, Jewish, and secular music. If there is friction between the Jewish community and the non-Jewish community, I've never observed it.

My question is about that Southern institution of Friday night football. Our high school football team makes the playoffs every year, and Jewish players abound on the roster. However, given that the Sabbath begins on Friday at sunset while the football team is suiting up to play, how does an observant Jew reconcile keeping Sabbath and participating in the life of the high school?
First, it's clear that it's better to not go to shul on Shabbos than it is to break the Sabbath by transgressing the Sabbath to observe it. In other words, you're fooling yourself if you think the Torah allows you to drive to shul on Shabbos.

With regards to Friday night high school football, you generally will not find Torah Observant Jews in the public school system, so your question is somewhat irrelevant. We're simply not there. Any Jew who drives to a football stadium on Shabbos, either to watch or to play, I can guarantee you is not a Torah Observant Jew. Might still be a nice person, though.

 
Old 12-29-2013, 02:18 PM
 
864 posts, read 871,429 times
Reputation: 258
1. Because they think by blending in with society, they will be more accepted and not be subjected to anti-semitism.
2. No. Orthodox Judaism existed since Mt. Sinai, but only came to be called "orthodox" during the enlightenment by reform Jews who formed their own watered down version of Judaism.
3. Since all holidays are commanded by G-d, this question doesn't make much sense, does it?
4. Neither/nor
5. No.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,664,302 times
Reputation: 2214
I disagree with your answer to question 1 being the complete answer. It may be the answer for certain people but not the majority.

A simpler explanation would be that it's a huge pain to follow all of the mitzvot and Humans are generally lazy.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 03:20 PM
 
864 posts, read 871,429 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
A simpler explanation would be that it's a huge pain to follow all of the mitzvot and Humans are generally lazy.
Also true.
 
Old 12-29-2013, 09:54 PM
 
Location: An Island with a View
757 posts, read 1,025,089 times
Reputation: 851
Really appreciate the insightful replies from both tff and iwish. Hope you guys don't mind my seemingly silly questions. Like a kid growing up, he must ask some in order to learn the basic stuffs. Do forgive me if they don't come out right.

What amazes me the most is the will and ability to reconcile the religious needs and the needs of everyday life in a big modern city knowing how strict the Torah is to orthodox observers. It seems, to an outsider like me, both religiously ambitious and exceedingly difficult. On one hand, one wants to pursuit a successful career, achieve monetary success so that one can make that 10% donation and raise a modern family, at the same time one must observe all 613 mitzvahs and keep all ancient rituals intact which forbid most modern activities. Naturally one wants to achieve the best of both world, but it does require some serious balancing act as it is a life full of contradictions.

Thanks again tff and iwish
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:18 PM
 
864 posts, read 871,429 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
On one hand, one wants to pursuit a successful career, achieve monetary success so that one can make that 10% donation and raise a modern family, at the same time one must observe all 613 mitzvahs and keep all ancient rituals intact which forbid most modern activities.
Luckily we are not living in the middle ages, and one can pursue a career and keep the Torah. Which modern activities are forbidden that might hinder a Jew?
 
Old 12-29-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: An Island with a View
757 posts, read 1,025,089 times
Reputation: 851
You're absolutely right. I wasn't suggesting one shouldn't pursue a career while keeping the Torah. I just find it amazing that one can be successful to obtain both, to have the best of both worlds. By modern activities, I mostly mean those that are forbidden during Sabbath and/or other holy days that I'm not aware of, for example. Obviously, there're still a great deal I don't understand as I've just started to learn about Judaism.
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
1,961 posts, read 2,709,514 times
Reputation: 2700
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
First, it's clear that it's better to not go to shul on Shabbos than it is to break the Sabbath by transgressing the Sabbath to observe it.
I disagree and so do many rabbis, even orthodox ones. The rabbis do not condone driving on shabbos or yom tov, but given the choice of a congregant who drives and attends vs. one who simply stays home, they'll take the former, and they've told me so.

I'm not going to get into weeds about how the term "work" has been interpreted to include driving, turning on lights, carrying items in your pocket (although an eruv makes this permissible), or tearing a piece of toilet paper, but I'll just leave at my belief that many aspects of the Torah are open to modern interpretation.
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
1,961 posts, read 2,709,514 times
Reputation: 2700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Which modern activities are forbidden that might hinder a Jew?
On Shabbat, nearly all of them.
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:41 AM
 
4,729 posts, read 4,365,132 times
Reputation: 1578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaser199 View Post
I disagree and so do many rabbis, even orthodox ones. The rabbis do not condone driving on shabbos or yom tov, but given the choice of a congregant who drives and attends vs. one who simply stays home, they'll take the former, and they've told me so.

I'm not going to get into weeds about how the term "work" has been interpreted to include driving, turning on lights, carrying items in your pocket (although an eruv makes this permissible), or tearing a piece of toilet paper, but I'll just leave at my belief that many aspects of the Torah are open to modern interpretation.
In a nutshell, you've described the core foundation of being a Conservative Jew. But keep in mind that Conservative Jusaiam is by it's very nature not a Torah Observant movement within Judaism. I 100% assure you that no Orthodox rabbi would say it's better to drive on Shabios than to skip shul. That's where the Reform/Conservative are holding, not the Torah Observant.

Furthermore, not wanting to "get into the weeds" over the definition of "work on Shabbos," again that's the position of Reform/Conservative. An entire tractate of Talmud was written on the subject. Perhaps no other Jewish topic has been discussed to the level of what is work on Shabbos. I doubt there is a core issue more fundamental to the Torah and the Jews who guard it. So please do not infer that a Reform or Conservative Jew who chooses not to guard the Sabbath is doing so with the approval of Torah Judaism. It's better to be honest like the poster here who simply said its hard and he's not interested.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Judaism

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top