[EA]

Originally Posted by 08grad

The curriculum is only one part to the problem, and something we can't fix without changing policy.

The district no longer allows administration to enforce any discipline in schools, largely due to the threat of a racial discrimination lawsuit as those who were being suspended were disproportionately Black and Hispanic. So now students are openly defiant knowing that nothing will happen to them.

The district decided about 5 years ago that they wanted to focus on improving graduation rates instead of test scores, which meant getting rid of any obstacles in a student's path to graduation. Passing an End of Course exam is no longer required to graduate. Doing classwork/homework or passing tests is no longer necessary with the Minimum F policies that many schools implement.

We could swap out my math class with a class on auto repair and maintenance, and you'd have the exact same issues.

You first fix education by sending disruptive students home and telling them to take classes on the online learning academy. It has to be OK to inconvenience parents if their children won't follow rules and procedures.

You then stop the practice of social promotion and retain students who aren't at grade level as assessed by standardized assessments, not by arbitrary letter grades. It has to be OK to hurt a student's feelings by holding them back.

Instead of focusing on increasing graduation rates, we need to shift our focus to the increased percent of college-ready graduates. Only 1 in 5 currently are considered college ready, yet we graduate nearly 90% of them.

Only then can we start talking about curriculum, which I agree, needs to be changed, since we are getting zero parent buy-in to what we're teaching students today.

Obviously it's a multi layered problem.

My insistence on changing the curriculum is due to everyone solely focusing on teacher pay.
I have a lot of problems with how schools are run. You named a few of them.
But the majority of people I talk to want to raise teacher pay. I object to that because it's not going to fix the problem with the material they teach. So curriculum gets the bulk of my focus in these discussions.


Personally, I think we should end public school entirely. Online courses can be tailored to individual students. They can move at their own pace. And it's billions cheaper. There's absolutely no need for all these administrators, expensive buildings, expensive teachers, liability insurance, buses, etc etc etc.

[Cold Warrior]

Only 1 in 5 currently are considered college ready

This matches what I observed in California, where more than half of the first year college students required a remedial English course and more than half required a remedial Math course. Still, given how many college degrees have little value in the job market, one might argue that only 1 in 5 will ever belong in college .

[08grad]

Originally Posted by EA

There's absolutely no need for all these administrators, expensive buildings, expensive teachers, liability insurance, buses, etc etc etc.

Of course there's a need. These are daycare facilities. That is by far the most valued aspect in the education system - the ability to drop your child off for 7 hours at no cost. This is why a strike favors the teachers. Parents really value their free daycare, and will blame the district for being cheap by not giving teachers their scheduled 2% raise the past 2 years.

I support online education, and I'm starting to believe that only putting those with bad behavior/attendance online won't work, because the same people who created the current mess will claim that they are not getting an equal education, that schools are disproportionately suspending Black and Hispanic students for reasons they shouldn't be suspended for, etc. And until that crowd is told "no" by a judge, it has to be all-or-nothing.

[quixotic59]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

quixotic59,

I seriously hope this has given you pause about any inkling you may have had regarding moving to Las Vegas or the State of Nevada, for that matter.

This is how the majority of Nevada residents think and this is why the schools are in the sorry state they are and why the economy of Nevada is so dependent on California tossing them scraps like a Tesla battery plant or an Amazon fulfillment center.

These people hate education, they hate educators, they resist any sort of social investment in their community and try to stick tourists with all of it through ridiculous taxes and "fees". What's worse, these people had to be convinced that UNLV should start a medical school. Re-read that: Yes! They had to be convinced. Because, you know, it's completely "normal" for a city of 2.5 million people to have football and hockey stadiums, but not a functioning medical school.

And, the cherry on top of this Sh** sundae is that they don't even want to pay for their own football stadium, so they stuck that to the tourists as well. They sit and whine and b**** about "Californians" in perpetuity when they rely so heavily on California money flowing over the border for their very existence. It's really pathetic, but to be expected I guess?

I appreciate your advice. We actually did consider moving to Las Vegas at one point. We did our research, however, regarding CCSD. The irony was that both of us were fully licensed by NY, which has some of the most demanding licensing requirements in the country, and had our Master's and above. We are both classified as "highly qualified" according to NCLB. CCSD treated us as if we were beginning teachers. That was off putting, in addition to the low pay and poor benefits. We might have accepted the financial conditions but the lack of recognition of qualifications is always a bad omen.

We did end up moving to Los Angeles, and my wife has earned full state certification here. Their school system has issues but as you say, the general population seems more supportive, especially as of late.

The real irony here is the complainers are the same individuals that caused problems in school. As you mentioned discipline is a hot button issue and has become overly politicized. When a child hears a parent sowing disrespect for the educational system, they will reflect that attitude in the classroom.

What many of the geniuses on this forum forget is that America is one of the few countries in the world that guarantees a free education to every child in grades K-12. The system worked great until politicians decided that education was one of their footballs they they could kick around and manipulate to get votes. Add in the efforts by the privatization clowns (DeVos, Waltons, Kochs, et al) to degrade public schools and the morons that buy into the hate rhetoric, and finally the recession clobbering municipal budgets and the perfect storm of destruction hit schools badly.

But, as you say, it always comes back to the ignorant locals embracing the unenlightened BS of the manipulators.

We still consider possibly moving to Las Vegas one day and hopefully by then attitudes will have improved!!

[quixotic59]

Originally Posted by 08grad

Of course there's a need. These are daycare facilities. That is by far the most valued aspect in the education system - the ability to drop your child off for 7 hours at no cost. This is why a strike favors the teachers. Parents really value their free daycare, and will blame the district for being cheap by not giving teachers their scheduled 2% raise the past 2 years.

I support online education, and I'm starting to believe that only putting those with bad behavior/attendance online won't work, because the same people who created the current mess will claim that they are not getting an equal education, that schools are disproportionately suspending Black and Hispanic students for reasons they shouldn't be suspended for, etc. And until that crowd is told "no" by a judge, it has to be all-or-nothing.

1) No one wants to admit that the solutions for the problems schools face will come from teachers as they are the front line troops every day. No administrator should ever be paid more than a teacher.

2) No one wants to admit that the majority of problems in schools are a direct result of bad parenting and poor student behavior. Teachers do not deny students education and knowledge, students refuse to accept it. That is what causes the majority of classroom problems. Teachers can overcome lack of supplies, they can develop great curriculum, that can account for learning disabilities, they can work in bad facilities, they can even hold their pee for unbelievable amounts of time (and do all of those things on a daily basis) but they cannot force a student to learn. ANY TEACHER IN THE WORLD will tell you the satisfaction they get when a student cooperates. That's all they ask, cooperation.

3) No one will admit that the higher pay is justified because of 1 & 2.

[EA]

I am going to be in Vegas for at least 2 more years probably longer. PLEASE stay your ass in NY far far away from my kids. I don't want an ignorant person like you anywhere near them.

[WestieJeff]

Exactly.

Pretty much all my friends dang near throw a party when their kids enter kindergarten or 1st grade. Basically they get a $1,000 per month raise! I regularly hear "I hope my kid gets accepted into full day kindergarten so I can stop that expense."

In an era of two working parents, school is #1 day care, #2 education.

Originally Posted by 08grad

Of course there's a need. These are daycare facilities. That is by far the most valued aspect in the education system - the ability to drop your child off for 7 hours at no cost. This is why a strike favors the teachers. Parents really value their free daycare, and will blame the district for being cheap by not giving teachers their scheduled 2% raise the past 2 years.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by quixotic59

1) No one wants to admit that the solutions for the problems schools face will come from teachers as they are the front line troops every day. No administrator should ever be paid more than a teacher.

2) No one wants to admit that the majority of problems in schools are a direct result of bad parenting and poor student behavior. Teachers do not deny students education and knowledge, students refuse to accept it. That is what causes the majority of classroom problems. Teachers can overcome lack of supplies, they can develop great curriculum, that can account for learning disabilities, they can work in bad facilities, they can even hold their pee for unbelievable amounts of time (and do all of those things on a daily basis) but they cannot force a student to learn. ANY TEACHER IN THE WORLD will tell you the satisfaction they get when a student cooperates. That's all they ask, cooperation.

3) No one will admit that the higher pay is justified because of 1 & 2.

I predicted 10. Keep them coming.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by rhuff80

The US system, while very flawed, is also under many legal mandates that many other countries ahead of us are not under.

Most of the mandates are regulatory and administrative, not legal.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by quixotic59

What many of the geniuses on this forum forget is that America is one of the few countries in the world that guarantees a free education to every child in grades K-12.

Many people mistakenly believe we have a Constitutional right to free K-12 education. Here is the full text of the US Constitution and its amendments: https://constitutionus.com/

Note that education is not mentioned anywhere in our Constitution, and with good reason. The Founders believed the Federal Government should have no role in public education. They strongly believed in education but correctly saw it was best left to the local communities with support from their respective states.