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Vegas is closed.
That is the best way to look at it if you have kids to raise. Just put it out of your mind entirely. There are plenty of nice small towns in Nevada, Arizona & New Mexico if you like the southwest. I have been a teacher in Vegas for the past couple of years. Student behavior is usually what you would expect (corresponds to their grade level, etc...). However, general morality and the things they get into trouble for outside of school is simply astonishing. The only notable exceptions are students who are members of the sizable Mormon community here (they veer towards the other extreme; good people). Their parents somehow ensure that they remain isolated from certain influences. How is a mystery to me. If you move to Vegas, plan on making the extreme sacrifice it takes to homeschool. That is what my wife and I will do if we're still stuck in this hellhole in a few years. I'm pretty confident we won't be, though.
Crime is so bad that there are exactly two decent places to live in town; Centennial Hills & Summerlin. Sadly, like too many places in the U.S. these days the housing prices there are ridiculous because of moron cutthroat speculators who are too lazy and ignorant to learn about the stock market and choose instead to view "homes" as "investments".
The growth here is tremendous. There are too many people; an inordinate number of whom are rude & unfriendly (ex-Los Angeleans & New Yorkers). Traffic is bad. 8000 people move here per month, while 3000 leave. I find the enormous number 8000 to be less noteworthy than the slightly less enormous number 3000. Who do you think knows more about living here in a given month- the 3000 who already have; or the 8000 newcomers?
Don't do it.
Vegas is closed.
That is the best way to look at it if you have kids to raise. Just put it out of your mind entirely. There are plenty of nice small towns in Nevada, Arizona & New Mexico if you like the southwest. I have been a teacher in Vegas for the past couple of years. Student behavior is usually what you would expect (corresponds to their grade level, etc...). However, general morality and the things they get into trouble for outside of school is simply astonishing. The only notable exceptions are students who are members of the sizable Mormon community here (they veer towards the other extreme; good people). Their parents somehow ensure that they remain isolated from certain influences. How is a mystery to me. If you move to Vegas, plan on making the extreme sacrifice it takes to homeschool. That is what my wife and I will do if we're still stuck in this hellhole in a few years. I'm pretty confident we won't be, though.
Crime is so bad that there are exactly two decent places to live in town; Centennial Hills & Summerlin. Sadly, like too many places in the U.S. these days the housing prices there are ridiculous because of moron cutthroat speculators who are too lazy and ignorant to learn about the stock market and choose instead to view "homes" as "investments".
The growth here is tremendous. There are too many people; an inordinate number of whom are rude & unfriendly (ex-Los Angeleans & New Yorkers). Traffic is bad. 8000 people move here per month, while 3000 leave. I find the enormous number 8000 to be less noteworthy than the slightly less enormous number 3000. Who do you think knows more about living here in a given month- the 3000 who already have; or the 8000 newcomers?
Don't do it.
Where do you people come from? Why don't you leave? Do you not understand that this is not a place where you will be happy? That perhaps the ugly mood driven by your unhappiness drags the rest of us down?
You might also note that the Mormons are able to participate widely in working in and managing this economy of which you so disapprove while not ruining their children. Perhaps they know things you might wish to learn. It has also been my experience that Las Vegas Mormons seldom home school. This may well be another indication that you are solving the wrong problem.
If anything growth is good for an area...even heavy growth. Talk to the folks coming from Michigan. Ask them what it is like when the growth goes away.
There are dozens of places equal to or better than the two you cite. There are numerous places to the south east and south and southwest and north that are just fine. There are even areas in the middle of the city that are very nice.
You need to leave and proceed to the next place...if it to proves unsuitable you should look at what is actually driving your unhappiness. I suspect it will have little to do with geography.
Rothbard - I do agree with most of what you wrote. The only thing I would disagree about is the areas you mentioned, Green Valley would be up there with the best areas but you failed to mention it.
You are right about the rest though and thank you for your input, especially considering you are a teacher in the area.
You won't find Vegas to be exactly what you are used to, I was stationed there in the Air Force, and coming from SoCal it was a nice change. If you're from Lake Forest you'll probably be mortified, if you're from Cicero you'll think nothing of the debauchery that some of the people are warning you of.
You won't find the same culture and "neighborhood" thing that you have back east. I currently live in NYC, my sister lives in Summerlin and loves it, a coworker of mine was born and raised in Vegas with all of her family still there and says that she would NEVER raise her kids there. Her argument to me is that having not grown up there I am not aware of what a kids life is like in Vegas. In any case I grew up in LA and would raise my kids in certain places there, everyone has their own idea of good and bad. I personally like the bigger cities with more culture.
I stand corrected. Green Valley probably is at least as tolerable as the other two places I mentioned.
Again though I must reiterate; even if you can afford to live in one of the few nice places here, the overall tone and inferior culture of a city that was almost literally built on lies simply isn't worth it. And again, I must cite the 3000 people per month who leave (soon to include me!!! JUNE 28!!! just got the news!). Please don't discount that statistic. Beware!
Sorry if us malcontents and ne'er-do-wells drag everyone else down. Some of us are naive when we move here, albeit with perfectly reasonable expectations I believe. Call me crazy, but one of my expectations was that my salary would be what the school district said it would be. Huh?
(NOTE: Comments below are my own bellyaching and not directly relevant to the topic at hand, but some of you may find them to be revealing tidbits from a teacher's perspective concerning the nature of Las Vegas.)
Hey! Here's an idea to help Las Vegas retain teachers and prevent them from leaving after one year (or less in dozens of cases per year). How about not lying to teachers about how much they get paid to the tune of $10,000!!!! What do you say? Sound like a good idea? My principal told me point blank that he refuses to go on recruiting junkets because he will not lie to people. If you send your child to a public school here, there is a fair chance he/ she will have an angry, bitter teacher preoccupied with conducting job searches rather than planning lessons. We hire 2500-3000 teachers at the beginning of each year and lose 2500-3000 teachers by the end of each year. Hellhole.
Last edited by Rothbard; 03-21-2007 at 09:59 AM..
Reason: syntax
Yes Vegas loses 3,000 people per month. That is 36,000 a year. The population of the Las Vegas area is 1.710 million. That is about 2.1%. That is very, very low for a major city. So a claim to strength for Las Vegas is that it loses very few people.
I would also note that we deal a lot with senior retirees. We expect about 20% of them to leave within two years driven almsot exclusively by the heat. If similar numbers prevail with other newcomers that would cover over half the departures.
While you are excepting GV you can also except Desert Shores and Lone Mountain and Aliante and Seven Hills and Spanish Trails and Spanish Oaks and Pecole Ranch and the Lakes and Providence and Rhodes Ranch and Canyon Gate and on and on.
I too object to Nevada and Clark County handling of teachers. Don't understand the scheme you refer to...though I am aware of some tendencies by school system to include benefits in salary...a misleading practice. But it is a very bad place to be cheap. Note this propensity is shared by virtually all states of the SW except CA.
so, they count your benefits as part of your salary and then you find that out after you start? I cant believe they get away with that.
Anyway, serious question. I'm 30 and about to possibly take a professional level job out there...have to make up my mind by the end of the week. Realistically, what do you think a person needs to make to live comfortably in las vegas? I am not yet interested in buying a home. I just mean, how much money per year do you think is a fair wage in that city?
rgb123,
Believe me, they get away with it. Although I am seriously considering going to the media about it. To live in minimal comfort, you need to earn about $40,000 per year for just a one person household. (Green Valley, Summerlin, Centennial Hills) We're more frugal than most. When I first moved here, I was supporting a wife and about to have a baby. As I recall I was expecting about $45,000 for my years of experience and wound up getting $33,000. I thought they let people know in advance now about their benefits scam.
olecapt,
The scheme I was referring to does have to do w/ including an aggregated lifetime (meaning hypothetical) benefits package in the "salary" quote. The difference between now & when I was hired is that they actually say "benefits included" now. Even if they had warned me I would not have known what it meant. I was only 29 and had only held one previous contract position in my life. The first-year teachers are even more naive, God help them. That is why they stay for one year and leave. Students therefore have no continuity or sense of a caring community in their schools. (Did I just use the term "caring community" in a thread about Las Vegas? Fit me for a straitjacket.)
For some, it is no big deal. For my wife and I, just starting out, it ruined our lives (temporarily) financially and the scams I have since involved myself in to break even on a regular basis are borderline felonies.
This SCUMBAG district quoted a salary and hired me. We proceeded to drive to Vegas the following weekend and rent a $1200 per month house. The only red flag I noticed was the way people drive. (I found myself extending my middle finger almost perpetually- rough on the shoulder muscles.) {What's up w/ incivility on the roads here, by the way? Where I'm from, that kind of behavior is rare. When it does occur it means "let's fight". Every time I step out of my car w/ my bat I never get any takers. They just drive around me and I get a mouthful of rodent feces-infested dust. Here I guess that means "they win". Baffling} Anyway, a week later, after giving notice to my employer and landlord, I received a pleasant surprise in the mail; MY ACTUAL SALARY. To me it doesn't matter how many districts in the southwest do that (New Mexico for one does not.) It's wrong to quote a ridiculously low salary and pay an even lower one. Please forgive me for wildly straying off topic again. Your mention of the treatment of teachers gave me an excuse to get on another soapbox. Reading Vegas threads is pure masochism for me. I'll try not to ruin anymore threads. My apologies to the initiator of this thread. I fear we may have scared the poor soul away.
Last edited by Rothbard; 03-21-2007 at 02:41 PM..
Reason: syntax
rgb123,
Believe me, they get away with it. Although I am seriously considering going to the media about it. To live in minimal comfort, you need to earn about $40,000 per year for just a one person household. (Green Valley, Summerlin, Centennial Hills) We're more frugal than most. When I first moved here, I was supporting a wife and about to have a baby. As I recall I was expecting about $45,000 for my years of experience and wound up getting $33,000. I thought they let people know in advance now about their benefits scam.
olecapt,
The scheme I was referring to does have to do w/ including an aggregated lifetime (meaning hypothetical) benefits package in the "salary" quote. The difference between now & when I was hired is that they actually say "benefits included" now. Even if they had warned me I would not have known what it meant. I was only 29 and had only held one previous contract position in my life. The first-year teachers are even more naive, God help them. That is why they stay for one year and leave. Students therefore have no continuity or sense of a caring community in their schools. (Did I just use the term "caring community" in a thread about Las Vegas? Fit me for a straitjacket.)
For some, it is no big deal. For my wife and I, just starting out, it ruined our lives (temporarily) financially and the scams I have since involved myself in to break even on a regular basis are borderline felonies.
This SCUMBAG district quoted a salary and hired me. We proceeded to drive to Vegas the following weekend and rent a $1200 per month house. The only red flag I noticed was the way people drive. (I found myself extending my middle finger almost perpetually- rough on the shoulder muscles.) {What's up w/ incivility on the roads here, by the way? Where I'm from, that kind of behavior is rare. When it does occur it means "let's fight". Every time I step out of my car w/ my bat I never get any takers. They just drive around me and I get a mouthful of rodent feces-infested dust. Here I guess that means "they win". Baffling} Anyway, a week later, after giving notice to my employer and landlord, I received a pleasant surprise in the mail; MY ACTUAL SALARY. To me it doesn't matter how many districts in the southwest do that (New Mexico for one does not.) It's wrong to quote a ridiculously low salary and pay an even lower one. Please forgive me for wildly straying off topic again. Your mention of the treatment of teachers gave me an excuse to get on another soapbox. Reading Vegas threads is pure masochism for me. I'll try not to ruin anymore threads. My apologies to the initiator of this thread. I fear we may have scared the poor soul away.
Actually salaries are low in the SW States. The place I have seen play the game of including benefits in salaries was Chicago. I thought it dull there as well.
I would also point out that the salary schedules in Las Vegas are an easily obtained public records. Google CCSD Teacher Salaries...you get ...
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