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Old 06-27-2009, 03:07 PM
 
748 posts, read 2,888,487 times
Reputation: 141

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Most banks do not make 2nd loans any more. Some do, but they are also strict and expect Loan-to-Value ratio of 15% atleast. I guess the private mortgage market, which is pretty much non-existent now, has to come back before freddie/fannie reduce the jumbo limit to avoid catastrophe in the mid-upper end.

 
Old 06-27-2009, 08:07 PM
 
95 posts, read 206,884 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by propain View Post
Where? Please show me where. Some of you are clueless buyers who are hoping and praying house prices will drop so you can afford on LI. You are speculating that they will drop. If you were right they would be going down right now. They are not. They have stabilized.

Keep praying. Ill stick with the facts in front of me.
Myself and others have shown you several times but you just plug your ears and start humming. What else can we do? You've completely and totally deluded yourself. The "facts" and evidence you've presented are weak and and every argument you have presented is full of holes.

If you'd like to attempt to prove me wrong, simply list every bit of evidence and every argument you have that home prices are not going to fall further. If you attempt to talk your way around this it's you who are the wishful thinker.

You can't simply will home prices into not dropping further. It doesn't work that way. Long island isn't a magical land where the basic principles of economics don't apply. There's solid principles behind the view that home prices will continue to fall, not just mere anecdotal evidence.

Today's a great time to buy. Only if you HAVE to buy. Tomorrow's going to be much better.
 
Old 06-27-2009, 08:43 PM
 
Location: I'm gettin' there
2,666 posts, read 7,336,372 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by propain View Post
Where? Please show me where. Some of you are clueless buyers who are hoping and praying house prices will drop so you can afford on LI. You are speculating that they will drop. If you were right they would be going down right now. They are not. They have stabilized.

Keep praying. Ill stick with the facts in front of me.
They have stabilized !! And that is your point. You have no clue which house sold for what price, there were no comps provided and you have clearly demonstrated your take on what constitutes a increase in house value, which I feel was the best thing to come out of this thread.

Other than that, I just feel your posts are basically pedantic. You feel prices have stabilized.... the good thing is that you are going to hang out here with us all to tell us "I told you so".... I hope we can take it in our stride.

It was a pleasure guys, I am done with this thread.
 
Old 06-27-2009, 09:45 PM
 
149 posts, read 351,425 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleIslander View Post
Myself and others have shown you several times but you just plug your ears and start humming. What else can we do? You've completely and totally deluded yourself. The "facts" and evidence you've presented are weak and and every argument you have presented is full of holes.

If you'd like to attempt to prove me wrong, simply list every bit of evidence and every argument you have that home prices are not going to fall further. If you attempt to talk your way around this it's you who are the wishful thinker.

You can't simply will home prices into not dropping further. It doesn't work that way. Long island isn't a magical land where the basic principles of economics don't apply. There's solid principles behind the view that home prices will continue to fall, not just mere anecdotal evidence.

Today's a great time to buy. Only if you HAVE to buy. Tomorrow's going to be much better.

This from a guy who says "Tomorrow will be better" Based on what Nostradamus? Based on nothing. Based on what other people tell you. Based on articles that aren't about this area. You have proved nothing. I am by far more right than you because we haven't seen what you are predicting is going to happen. I say stable, you say decrease. Guess what genius until we see a decrease you are WRONG. In this thread im saying we wont see an across the board 40% drop. Until we see a 40% drop across the board I AM RIGHT. Try to stick to the facts of this thread.


Low interest rates.
Higher conforming limits.
A drop of already 20% or more in most areas.
Stock market stability.


All my reasons. What are yours?


I don't expect you to take this well so feel free to cry and tell me im wrong some more based on nothing.
 
Old 06-27-2009, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Little Babylon
5,072 posts, read 9,146,742 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by propain View Post
Agreed there will be places on the island that had bigger artificial inflation. No argument from me. The argument from me is that we wont see an across the board 40% drop in the rest of the market as the orignal poster alluded to by linking that article. Others have also out right said that LI needs a 40% drop across the board. Some people on this forum actually believe that will indeed happen. Im just trying to let them know its a prayer that will never be answered.
I don't think a 40% across the board drop is needed, as you stated things are selling in Roselyn and probably other neighborhoods with the same economic makeup. So excluding the top economic bracket and the poorest, I will say that the Island does need housing that is in line with the rest of the incomes on the Island.

From Page 35 of the 2009 Long Island Index. Page 51 of the Long Island Index starts addressing housing and incomes.
Long Island Index: Read Index Test

Between 1999 and 2007 the average pay per employee on Long Island rose 3%, while the average for the country was 7%. Between 2007 and 2008 wages for Islanders fell 5% while the country averaged 3% wage growth. Real incomes for the bottom 10% dropped 4%, the top 10% saw an increase of 9% and the median was stagnant. Also the business sectors that paid higher wages on the Island are stagnant or decreasing while businesses that offer below average to low wages are expanding.

So the question becomes, how can Long Island justify the higher housing costs in the future?

I also think these numbers may explain some of the differences of opinion and hopes for a price drop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by propain View Post
Thank you for a normal reply without insults or sarcasm.
No problem.
 
Old 06-28-2009, 10:09 AM
 
1,917 posts, read 5,345,145 times
Reputation: 829
LI has been an expensive place to live for a long time. People left in droves during the 70's, 80's and 90's. We are pretty much the reason why Florida, Georgia and the Carolina's are so populated now!
You can have this very discussion at any point in the last 30 years or so. But, now-NOW is the time the great "Correction" will take place?
We will never get back to pre-bubble prices. Sure, that house butted up against 7-11 or the railroad tracks might, but the average desirable neighborhood never will.
 
Old 06-28-2009, 11:29 AM
 
149 posts, read 351,425 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzilla View Post
LI has been an expensive place to live for a long time. People left in droves during the 70's, 80's and 90's. We are pretty much the reason why Florida, Georgia and the Carolina's are so populated now!
You can have this very discussion at any point in the last 30 years or so. But, now-NOW is the time the great "Correction" will take place?
We will never get back to pre-bubble prices. Sure, that house butted up against 7-11 or the railroad tracks might, but the average desirable neighborhood never will.
Blasphemy!!

 
Old 06-29-2009, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Nassau County, Long Island
240 posts, read 237,125 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by propain View Post

Low interest rates.
Higher conforming limits.
A drop of already 20% or more in most areas.
Stock market stability.

I think someone is conveniently forgetting about the job market. Unemployment is at what # now??

How about consumer spending, which has all but come to a halt. Temporarily government spending is taking it's place, but that won't last forever. Many economists predict consumer spending to be at a stand-still for a long time until the consumer debt ratio comes back to historic rates. This just means the economy will not recover fully for a while, creating a higher unemployment rate than we've experienced in a while.

The stock market isn't all that stable. Yes, we are not dropping 500-800 points per day anymore, but anyone who works in the market knows that volatility still exists. Wall Street is not hiring back all the laid-off employees. In fact some banks are still laying off indirectly (by not filling open positions).

20% drop is most areas is nice, but still not back to historic trends. Yes, LI has always been an expensive place to live. That's why home prices will fall back to historic trends which, are expensive! Just not as expensive as they are now.

Another little nugget that you forget to mention is how credit, once free-flowing, is much more difficult to come by. When I bought my house I was able to get a mortgage that was 5x my gross income. Now, with even better credit, the best I can do is 3.5x my gross. Guess what that means? Less people bidding up your overpriced property. With less supply and more demand brings lower prices.

That said, now is a good time to buy. But next year will be even better.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 07:44 AM
 
532 posts, read 1,270,413 times
Reputation: 511
The horse is dead, put away the stick. Why is this thread rediculous?
  • You have 2 identical houses on the same street, one priced at 320K, the second priced at 400K. Do predictions that the "housing market" must correct by X percent apply to both houses? Nope. Perhaps the 400K home price needs to drop 20% to 320K, but that 320K house is priced to sell and is as low as it's going to get.
My point? 5 years ago, as is today, as will be In 5 years you're going to have people distressed looking to sell quickly at a lower price than those with a toe in the water and no real incentive to move. Buy the house that is priced to sell. Geez, it aint that hard.
 
Old 06-29-2009, 07:49 AM
 
110 posts, read 225,817 times
Reputation: 49
Housing in Peril as Obama Fails to Get Financing Breakthrough
2009-06-29 04:01:00.17 GMT


By Kathleen M. Howley
June 29 (Bloomberg) -- Driving through Riverside, California,
Bruce Norris pointed to a half-dozen empty houses with "For Sale" signs
stuck in untended lawns that he said investors might buy if banks would
just extend some credit.
"People today look at us as the enemy," said Norris, 57, head of
Riverside-based Norris Group, which purchases and renovates homes to
rent or sell. "That's a big problem for housing because if we can't get
the financing we need, a lot of these properties are going to sit
vacant."
Four months after President Barack Obama pledged $275 billion to
shore up home sales, the engine that powered every U.S. recovery since
1960 is stalled. Bankers' reluctance to finance buyers who won't live in
properties is one barrier to a turnaround. Stricter qualifying rules and
a rise in the cost of residential loans to 5.42 percent have impeded new
mortgage lending, which is at a 13-year low. An inventory of 2.1 million
unoccupied houses on the market, created by the fastest foreclosure pace
in history, may be a drag on a revival.
The $8,000 first-time homebuyer tax credit in the U.S.
economic stimulus package and a government program to subsidize some
mortgage payments have had little effect, according to Eric Belsky,
executive director of Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing
Studies in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
"It hasn't been much more than a see-sawing of data,"
Belsky said in an interview. "Housing has led the U.S. economy out of
every recession for at least 50 years, and for that to happen again more
stimulus is going to be needed."

'Lousy Job Market'

The residential real estate market improved ahead of the end of the
past seven contractions, with home construction starts beginning to
climb an average of seven months before gross domestic product picked up
and sales gaining about four months in advance, according to data
compiled by David Berson, chief economist of PMI Group, a mortgage
insurer in Walnut Creek, California.
Expenditures by homeowners -- first on transaction fees, then on
necessities and luxuries including furniture, gardening tools, kitchen
renovations, basic upkeep and property taxes -- kept the momentum going,
Belsky said.
Existing U.S. home sales in May rose 2.4 percent to an annual rate
of 4.77 million, lower than forecast, and the median price was down 16.8
percent from the same month in 2008, according to the Chicago-based
National Realtors Association.
There's little chance the turnover will increase enough this year
to end the housing recession, said Andres Carbacho- Burgos, an economist
with Moody's Economy.com in West Chester, Pennsylvania.
"We have a lousy job market and an excess of around 1 million extra
homes that has to be worked off," he said in an interview. "The housing
market is not going to hit bottom before mid-2010."

'People Are Scared'

Housing starts are at their lowest level since 1945, even with a 17
percent increase in May that pushed the annual rate to 532,000 from a
454,000 pace the prior month. So many properties are for sale -- 3.8
million as of last month -- that it would take 9.6 months to unload them
at the current sales pace, according to the Realtors group. The
inventory averaged 3.6 months in the five years before the boom ended in
June 2005.
While there is pent-up demand that would eat away at the stock,
"people are scared to spend the money because they're worried about
losing their jobs," said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS
Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts, in an interview.
The unemployment rate, which reached a 26-year high of 9.4 percent
in May, will probably exceed 10 percent this year, Obama said at a June
23 White House news conference.
"The American people have a right to feel like this is a tough time
right now," Obama said, calling it "pretty clear"
payrolls will continue to shrink. About 6 million jobs have disappeared
since January 2008, marking the biggest employment loss of any
retrenchment since the Great Depression.

20.4 Million Underwater

Personal bankruptcies rose 37 percent in May from a year earlier,
according to the American Bankruptcy Institute, based in Alexandria,
Virginia. Credit card defaults in the first quarter went to 7.79 percent
from 4.83 percent a year ago, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. data show.
While the share of loans entering foreclosure moved to 1.37 percent, the
highest ever, the first-quarter mortgage delinquency rate climbed to a
record 9.12 percent, the Washington-based Mortgage Bankers Association
said.
About 20.4 million of the 93 million houses, condos and co- ops in
the U.S. were worth less than their loans as of March 31, according to
Seattle-based real estate data service Zillow.com.

Sharing a Bedroom

After the Federal Reserve pledged to acquire as much as
$1.25 trillion in mortgage-backed securities to free up money for home
loans, mortgage rates fell to a record low of 4.78 percent twice in
April. Rates began climbing last month on investor concern federal
spending will fuel inflation.
That dashed the hopes of 14-year-old Justin Southwell of the Bronx
borough of New York, who is fed up with sharing a room with his
11-year-old brother.
"He's so disappointed, it's like someone died," said his father,
48-year-old Lorson Southwell, a systems analyst who decided not to bid
on a three-bedroom house in Yonkers when higher rates made it
unaffordable, even with the $8,000 federal tax credit. House-hunting is
"back on the sidelines" and the family will remain for now in their
two-bedroom apartment, Southwell said in an interview.

'Permissive' Days Gone

If the cost of money doesn't put consumers off, loan officers' new
strictness may keep them out of the market, said Grant Stern, a mortgage
broker and owner of Morningside Mortgage Corp. in Miami Beach, Florida.
About 50 percent of banks tightened requirements for prime
borrowers in the first quarter, asking for bigger down payments and more
cash on hand, among other things, the Fed said.
"Six years ago, standards were pretty permissive, and two years ago
all you needed was a pulse," Stern said in an interview. "Nowadays, even
people who have reserves that equal amount of the loan are getting
rejected."
While "demand remained at elevated levels" in April, mortgage
lending at the 20 U.S. banks that received the greatest share of
Troubled Asset Relief Program funding dropped 3 percent to $114.2
billion, the U.S. Treasury Department said in a June
15 report. Home purchase loans issued by all institutions in the first
quarter totaled $131 billion, the least since 1996's first three months,
according to the mortgage bankers group.

'Risky Bets'

"Each lender is wondering who is going to go first and how much
should they open their door," said Lawrence Loik, head of the Westlake
Village, California-based Real Estate Investors Network, which runs
workshops and publishes material for people who buy property for profit.
"They're all afraid."
Banks base decisions on careful evaluation, not fear, said James
Chessen, chief economist of the Washington-based American Bankers
Association.
"The risk of lending today is much greater than it was a few years
ago, so banks are being more prudent," Chessen said in an interview.
Investors face roadblocks because of their perceived roles in
helping inflate the housing bubble, said Norris in Riverside, which had
the fifth-highest U.S. foreclosure rate in the first quarter, according
to RealtyTrac Inc., an Irvine, California, real estate data company. Las
Vegas was No. 1.
"That means the people who have the experience to repair these
houses can't buy them until they deteriorate to the point they can pay
cash," Norris said in an interview.

Key Recovery Role

Obama cited some real estate investors in a Feb. 18 speech, saying
government efforts "will not help speculators who took risky bets on a
rising market and bought homes not to live in but to sell."
Washington-based Fannie Mae in February increased from four to 10
the number of mortgages one borrower is allowed for investment
properties.
"Bona-fide, experienced investors bringing significant equity to
the table will play a key role in the housing recovery," said Amy
Bonitatibus, a Fannie Mae spokeswoman, in an e-mailed statement.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in McLean, Virginia are
government-chartered companies that own or guarantee more than half of
single-family mortgages in the U.S.
At the June 23 White House press conference, Obama said it was too
early to endorse calls for another round of stimulus spending. He signed
the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act on Feb. 17.
"It's important to see how the economy evolves and how effective
the first stimulus is," the president said.

Assistance For Borrowers

The Obama administration's housing market program includes
$75 billion to reduce payments for people in danger of losing their
properties. Data about the borrowers receiving assistance won't be
released by the Treasury until July, according to Michael Barr,
assistant secretary for financial institutions.
"If we're not on track by the end of August, we would need to
decide whether to make significant modifications to the program," Barr
said in an interview.
After each of the last seven U.S. economic slumps, growth was more
than 4 percent on average in the first year of recovery, data compiled
by Bloomberg show. In the three months before each recession concluded,
GDP shrank at an average 2.8 percent annual rate, according to the data.
The economy contracted at a 5.5 percent annual rate in the first
quarter, capping the worst six-month performance in half a century. In
May, consumer spending rose by 0.3 percent, the Commerce Department
said.
Home sales probably won't be the fuel to end the recession that
began in December 2007, said Global Insight's Behravesh.
"It's going to be different this time," he said. "The pattern this
time will be the government kick-starts housing, and then consumer
spending comes around to kick-start the economy."

Looks like your right on Propain! LMAO.
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