City of L.A now forcing Farmer's Market vendors to accept EBT (Los Angeles: 2013, health insurance)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

I just demonstrated it to you, but you were unable to even grasp it. I don't care if NyWriterdude was writing about "very specific areas" as it makes no difference. There are many many of those "very specific areas". Do you think the sentiment NyWriterdude described existed in any community 50 years ago?

Yes. I KNOW it did.

Do you think you could have pulled an arrogant, racially-charged, ignorant rant stunt in Harlem or Watts back in the day? North Philly? Detroit? LMFAO. Where's my time machine to send you back for the experience.

How was life better back in the day OC? you said you could demonstrate. Bupkis.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yes. I KNOW it did.

Do you think you could have pulled an arrogant, racially-charged, ignorant rant stunt in Harlem or Watts back in the day? North Philly? Detroit? LMFAO. Where's my time machine to send you back for the experience.

How was life better back in the day OC? you said you could demonstrate. Bupkis.

All he has to do is read about the RIOTS in those areas then to realize it would not have been safe to make an anti poor rant in those areas.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by NyWriterdude

All he has to do is read about the RIOTS in those areas then to realize it would not have been safe to make an anti poor rant in those areas.

Yes. It was quite a disconnect for me to come home in between tours in Vietnam in the winter of '67 - '68. I left barb wire perimeters, fortified sandbagged hooches, and armed patrols in armored vehicles to come "home" stateside to barb wire perimeters, fortified sandbagged posts, and armed patrols in armored vehicles in various cities, including the nation's capitol.

But, moving on with the issue, let's get away from racial "good old days" and references to slavery, and ponder the struggles of the pioneers heading west, the labor riots of the late 1800's, early 1900's and periodically in the 1920's and 1930's. World Wars. The days of the Potato Famine and before that the Plague. The Inquisition. Mongol invasions. Raping, burning, pillaging of the Norsemen. Child labor. The discrimination of male dominance pre-women's suffrage. Disease and lack of modern health care. No indoor plumbing or electricity.

I could write the darkness of the past all night.

Yep. Life today isn't like the "good old days."

[MItoBH]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Farmers Markets in L.A. Now Required to Accept EBT Cards After City Council Vote | KTLA

What is next?

When do you think the L.A city council will vote to force landlords to accept Section 8 vouchers?

I see nothing wrong with this. I'd rather see someone buying fresh fruits and vegetables at a Farmers Market instead of buying Cheetos and soda pop at the grocery store.

No this won't lead to forcing Section 8 vouchers, but all people should have access to good wholesome food.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by NativeOrange

Yes, obviously "privilege" doesn't apply to every single white person equally, and I'm not going to start a discussion involving race, but do you honestly think that if your parents had been anything other than white that they would have had the same opportunities for building success? History will tell you that the answer is no.



I didn't miss anything, so my point about similar situations still stands.

Plenty of immigrants from Asia, Latin America, and, yes, the Caribbean as well, were able to build success in that time period, not just European immigrants.

History will tell you that.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yes. I KNOW it did.

Do you think you could have pulled an arrogant, racially-charged, ignorant rant stunt in Harlem or Watts back in the day? North Philly? Detroit? LMFAO. Where's my time machine to send you back for the experience.

How was life better back in the day OC? you said you could demonstrate. Bupkis.

50 years ago the Great Society programs were already here and were already corrupting poor communities around the nation, changing attitudes to welfare with the help of academics like Cloward and Piven (who ironically wanted to destroy the Democratic Party that introduced those programs).

60 years ago, however, welfare was clearly disfavored unless you were a criminal, drug addict, alcoholic, or prostitute. It was even disfavored in those areas.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by majoun

Plenty of immigrants from Asia, Latin America, and, yes, the Caribbean as well, were able to build success in that time period, not just European immigrants.

History will tell you that.

History tells a very clear story about the pernicious ostracization and tacit apartheid of African-Americans that has persisted right through the present. It is quite different from the positioning and acceptance of those other cultural and racial groups. But let's not turn this thread off topic into that morass again.

Originally Posted by majoun

50 years ago the Great Society programs were already here and were already corrupting poor communities around the nation, changing attitudes to welfare with the help of academics like Cloward and Piven (who ironically wanted to destroy the Democratic Party that introduced those programs).

60 years ago, however, welfare was clearly disfavored unless you were a criminal, drug addict, alcoholic, or prostitute. It was even disfavored in those areas.

Though this also borders on toppling off-topic, it is closer to the dynamic of how EBT relates to food access. Are you suggesting that welfare has been / is being sold as a viable lifestyle opportunity? If so I gather you are unaware of the present conditions and limits of the various "welfare" programs. I suggest you drop that part of your argument if that's where you are going. Stick with the EBT for SNAP as it relates here. And SNAP isn't a welfare program. It's a Department of Agricultural subsidy for farmers program that focuses benefit to the poor as well.

[NyWriterdude]

Many people used welfare/government social benefit programs to move to the middle class if not the upper class.

In the 1940s, the GI bill was past. Military vets got free healthcare, COLLEGE paid for by the MILITARY, and cheap loans/mortgages for businesses, houses, or farms. As these people moved up socioeconomically, they moved their families up as well. It was mainly for white people and did not extend to other races until the 1960s (civil rights era).

Today whether it's federally financed student loans, pell grants, GI Bill recipients, many people still use government funding to move up socioeconomically. Having family inheritances help as well.

The people on this forum who express right wing views generally say they are small business people or want to be small business people. Government programs caused competition for them as people used the programs to have a better life than they would have working for next to nothing for crappy small businesses.

Government programs were not disfavored 60 years ago. Certainly not the GI Bill, and certainly not subsidized mortgages.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by NyWriterdude

Many people used welfare/government social benefit programs to move to the middle class if not the upper class.

In the 1940s, the GI bill was past. Military vets got free healthcare, COLLEGE paid for by the MILITARY, and cheap loans/mortgages for businesses, houses, or farms. As these people moved up socioeconomically, they moved their families up as well. It was mainly for white people and did not extend to other races until the 1960s (civil rights era).

Today whether it's federally financed student loans, pell grants, GI Bill recipients, many people still use government funding to move up socioeconomically. Having family inheritances help as well.

The people on this forum who express right wing views generally say they are small business people or want to be small business people. Government programs caused competition for them as people used the programs to have a better life than they would have working for next to nothing for crappy small businesses.

Government programs were not disfavored 60 years ago. Certainly not the GI Bill, and certainly not subsidized mortgages.

The language in the GI Bill was remarkably race neutral. Blacks in the South had more difficulty using it, for reasons noted in the article below, but it was not "mainly for white people".

The G.I. Bill, World War II, and the Education of Black Americans

My husband has a small business with two non-family employees. My son and I also work for him. Son earns a good salary; I don't get paid much.

The two non-family employees are paid well above the average for their job descriptions and have a very nice work environment. The same was true of my employees when I had my own business before I retired. In fact, one of our current employees used to work for me.

It would be of interest to know what you consider a "crappy small business".

Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council

Upward mobility, if it increases competition, does so by increasing the opportunity for more people to start their own small businesses.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

The language in the GI Bill was remarkably race neutral. Blacks in the South had more difficulty using it, for reasons noted in the article below, but it was not "mainly for white people".

The G.I. Bill, World War II, and the Education of Black Americans

My husband has a small business with two non-family employees. My son and I also work for him. Son earns a good salary; I don't get paid much.

The two non-family employees are paid well above the average for their job descriptions and have a very nice work environment. The same was true of my employees when I had my own business before I retired. In fact, one of our current employees used to work for me.

It would be of interest to know what you consider a "crappy small business".

Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council

Upward mobility, if it increases competition, does so by increasing the opportunity for more people to start their own small business.

Blacks nationwide had difficulty using the GI Bill. This was not limited to the South. That is why you had the civil rights movement, as Blacks were routinely and legally denied access to education, loans, housing, and jobs.

As for starting more small businesses leading to upward mobility, in an era where large corporate giants crush small businesses I don't think so. Large institutions that provide excellent benefits including PENSIONS provide much greater social mobility than the typical small business.

Truthfully discrimination in education was not limited to Black people. Women were not routinely able to enter the Ivy League (with the exception of Cornell) until the 60s and 70s. Columbia College (part of Columbia University) did not admit women until 1983.