Vote NO on Federal Park (Millinocket, Strong: pros and cons, tax, living in)

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by camanchaca

"They" was a pretty clear reference to "the federal government" in that quote, dude, and from the snopes link:

"Fisher spent over one million dollars in trying to perfect the ball point pen before he made his first successful pressurized pens in 1965. Samples were immediately sent to Dr. Robert Gilruth, Manager of the Houston Space Center, where they were thoroughly tested and approved for use in Space in September 1965. In December 1967 he sold 400 Fisher Space Pens to NASA for $2.95 each."

which is about $1200 in 1967, and converts to roughly $22-$25 a pop in today's money, which while it isn't exactly the Office Depot "ten cents per when you buy a barrel worth" is pretty cheap compared to, for example, the cost of putting each gram in orbit.

Referring to someone on a forum as "dude" doesn't go a long way advancing the merits of a National Park in Maine. This Mainer finds it offensive and arrogant. You are so full of knowledge, I'm impressed though...I'm guessing you enlighten us to the merits of this pen because we will want to carry them in the trinket shop we will all be working in up this way part time once the park opens.

[Maineac]

Methinks thee doth protesteth too much. I pretty much got it, it was done fairly respectfully of the previous poster's blatant misinformation and re-leveled the argumentative ground back to "what ARE the real pros and cons of a National Park" versus "I despise the Federal Government, zoning, etc., etc. and therefore the NP is bad." Referring to someone on a forum as "dude" is pretty neutral when compared to some of the "Agenda 21" and other silly things, readily debunked, I've read here.

[maineguy8888]

Maineac I would be curious to hear what you think of that fact there already is a huge, awesome park right there. One that no national park could come close to matching.
And maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't come onto a forum as a brand new poster and start calling the old-timers (who are usually VERY helpful to others) names like "dude".

[mensaguy]

I don't like the term "dude," I don't use it, and I don't want anybody to call me that. OTOH, it's not worth raising my blood pressure over something so trivial. It's a term my children's generation uses. Big whoop. Kids call everybody "dude." They'll grow out of it.

[kellysmith]

Originally Posted by Maineac

Methinks thee doth protesteth too much.

Well said...and I think this sounds like Beautiful People speak. We aren't that smart up this way, but know when we are being talked down to. We don't have to think a National Park is what is needed up this way. And what's with the burr in your saddle anyway?

[Kracer]

Get used to hearing 'hey dude'.... who do you think will come to the national park?

[Maineac]

Well, the response to the "dude" comment managed to completely divert attention away from the "dude" poster's refuting of the ballpoint pen myth, so I guess it worked. And all we have in the last several posts is more noise, no discussion of the actual benefits and disadvantages of a National Park. People "up this way" aren't all completely against a National Park, either. I run up Rt. 11 quite frequently, with quite a bit of family in the County. Most are looking for answers. So, once again, without "talking down" or using the word "dude," what IS the big argument against the National Park beyond the political speaking points? Economic, State's Rights, the paper industry that's been so good to everyone? Gotta love Cate St. filing bankruptcy - at least they reduced the FAME grab from the Maine taxpayers to $16 million. And owe what? $2.5 million in property taxes and a pile more in liens by local contractors? What is it you want, Bald Mtn. turned into a mine for Irving Oil, destroying the groundwater, or an E/W highway slicing the State in half for private profit from Canada to Canada, ultimately to be owned by foreign interests (as admitted by the developers). A fenced, zero access 500' to 2000' wide corridor is acceptable, along with blowing the top off Bald Mtn. and draining the spills into the regional watershed (with all profits flowing out of the country), but Quimby doing what she wants with her land isn't. Go ahead and explain.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Remember the street person in Boston who sued Maine fishermen to save the whales? One of the giant conservation corporations told him if he would sign the paper to save the whales they would give him a lifetime pass to the soup kitchen in the South End. He signed the paper which turned out to be a federal lawsuit. It put every single Maine long line fisherman out of business.

John Kerry lived in his old Chrysler LeBaron for a while until he charmed Theresa Heinz. Now he's secretary of state and doesn't know any more about foreign policy than he did when he was on the Mekong River - briefly.

When Roxanne was living in the back seat of her K-car she met Bert and they formed a partnership. The business plan was that they could mix beeswax and goat's milk and people would rub it on themselves. A giant environmental corporation bought the goat's milk and beeswax company for a huge amount of money and the North Woods National Park plan was off and running. Somebody else who knows the story sent me one of their lip balm products as a Christmas gag gift.

Read their stuff. You'll see that they want to prevent business and economic development:

Global Sustainability requires: "the deliberate quest of poverty . . . reduced resource consumption . . . and set levels of mortality control."
Professor Maurice King

“The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans."
Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project

"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"
Maurice Strong, Head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro

“Economic growth is not the cure, it is the disease.”
Maurice Strong

"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."
John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal


Everything these people touch becomes an economic, social and political disaster. Deluded garden variety progressives are the least of our problems. It's their leaders we need to worry about.

[mainebrokerman]

for 20 years i use to travel to many of the small towns all over maine,

i log on many miles,,,and twice i've sworn ive seen a mountain lion,,, crossing a road in rural maine,,hundreds of miles apart..
when i get a chance, i will ask a game warden or registered guide if they have seen mountain lions or wolves in maine- the wardens will all say no...but the guides arent so black and white, one guide told me ...there is a cat in the area-he has seen it,, i asked, why the effort to keep this hushed up-and his answer hit me like a brick-tho so obvious- "if mountain lions are proven to exist, same with wolves, then there will be a very strong effort to close down/post/restrict huge tracts of habitat under the name of "protection" and thus- our freedoms to use the land will be gone..lost forever.. like putting lipstick on a pig,,the word "protection" will fit an agenda"

[Cuffler]

I can't believe that this issue is still being pursued. Way back years ago, while visiting, we were approached with someone holding a clipboard to sign a petition to have Baxter made into a NP. We courteously explained that we were not residents and could not vote. I didn't see much more about this subject until now.

I've spend plenty of time at Baxter fly fishing for some of the extraordinary wild trout in the cleanest, clearest water I've ever seen. You could see 30' down in the lake we were in it was that clear. It was a tough trek to get in there but boy was it worth it. Why would anyone want to change that environment from what it currently is to having a NP status complete with paved roads, guard houses, carved signs and more traffic? You've already got all of that a Acadia, the NP we are in love with but only after Labor Day. That is not the kind of traffic you need to bring to North Central Maine and at Baxter. In my most humble opinion, Baxter should stay just as it is; a rural local State Park that is visited by locals and people "from away" like me and my family from time to time. It's rugged, wild, and alluring. We don't need concessions, bathrooms and gift shops there.......just the trees and the wildlife thank you very much. I sure hope, for Maine's sake, that this stays local. As mentioned above, when the Feds get involved things can only become a lot more complicated.

Rome (Currently from CT but moving to Maine in the next 24 months or so!)