How bad do you think MI really is? (Detroit, Grand Rapids: credit, student loan)

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

Raleigh has three of the largest universities in the nation, and many doctoral graduates running around working at the mall. A whole lot of over qualified people. !

Actually, in enrollment numbers, technically they're not even close. NCState has about 30,000 students, Duke has about 11,000, and UNC-Chapel Hill has about 27,000. Obviously MSU and UofM are much higher than that (45K and 40K respectively), and GVSU had a record enrollment last year of almost 24,000 (a 289% increase in 20 years).

But I digress. I actually think the Michigan media has been very pessimistic, and in case you missed the last gubernatorial election, the only thing talked about was job losses.

But with all that being said, I don't see this map changing much by the 2010 census:

[palaceman71]

Originally Posted by palaceman71

Okay. I have a great job. I'm not bragging. I just can't stay shut up about this any more. So what? What is the point of having a great job if you leave work at 5 pm completely exhilirated only to find there is nothing to do but go home?

Scr-w my great job in Detroit. I'm outta here.

Okaaaaaaaayyyyyy. Taking a deep breath now. My move to Chicago is finalized and I feel much better. *pant* *pant* So, I have to say a few nice things now. Detroit OWNS many genres of music. The rest of the world will be thanking us for this for generations to come. And two, the west side and north of the state are truly breath taking places. Anyhoo.... Hang in there Detroit/Michigan. Just thinking 35 years is enough.

[Old Crusty]

Just a few comments from someone who lives in Michigan after living in a lot of other places...

Don't confuse Michigan with Detroit.

We have gone through economic cycles like this one before. We go up. We go down. I hope your still around for the big bounce

[mike jones]

Originally Posted by Old Crusty

Just a few comments from someone who lives in Michigan after living in a lot of other places...

Don't confuse Michigan with Detroit.

We have gone through economic cycles like this one before. We go up. We go down. I hope your still around for the big bounce

The only big bounce you will be hearing is the sound of our behinds hitting the parking lot after we get our lay-off notice.

[Sociologist]

Originally Posted by magellan

Actually, in enrollment numbers, technically they're not even close. NCState has about 30,000 students, Duke has about 11,000, and UNC-Chapel Hill has about 27,000. Obviously MSU and UofM are much higher than that (45K and 40K respectively), and GVSU had a record enrollment last year of almost 24,000 (a 289% increase in 20 years).

But I digress. I actually think the Michigan media has been very pessimistic, and in case you missed the last gubernatorial election, the only thing talked about was job losses.

But with all that being said, I don't see this map changing much by the 2010 census:

For the record, I was stating that they have "three of the nations largest" which IS correct. After attending NC State I think I know the correct enrollment. Also, since 2000, we've had the mini crash since 9/11/01, a HUGE amount of homes being put in foreclosure status, as well as a huge displacement of persons due to Katrina and the national economic struggle. That map wouldn't even be recognizable at this point, nearly 10 years later. Go to quick facts.census.govModerator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed Look at the migration of people, and the amount of poverty. That map is completely out-dated. Furthermore, I wasn't comparing the universities of North Carolina to those of Michigan, I was stating that Raleigh, and the particular vicinity has one of the highest populations of college educated people, making it difficult to compete for jobs. If you've ever lived in Raleigh, the town motto is "Tee's Green's and Phd's." If you think 10 years wont change economic structures, statistics, and peoples lives.....well thats just silly. The map posted, (which we don't know who slapped the statistics together), if you know the country well we can start in the west. All the dark red areas represent portions that are EXTREMELY sparse in terms of population. Obviously, no people, no jobs=poverty. What constitutes as "poverty" has also changed since 99-00 when the economy was eons better than currently. Levels of income have changed, companies have gone through huge amounts of corporate engineering, restructuring and outsourcing, millions of jobs lost to overseas ventures, and manufacturing has since dried. Even more silly, the map shows the Detroit area in rather good shape.......??? Wow, even in 2000 the market in Detroit was one of the worst in the country. The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

[mary_in_michigan]

....I guess at this point the one thing i'm missing about California? Is the fact that my blonde hair with the very cool natural blonde streaks, has darkened up considerably due to the winter and lack of a lot of sunlight to KEEP it that way- back in Cali, it stayed blonde ALL the time- lol!

[mary_in_michigan]

Ok, there isn't a whole lot to do around here, but tell you what; the abundance of trees is phenomenal- walking my son a few blocks to school, even in this cold and (not a whole lot, but some) snow, there is just something astounding about looking across the street into a silent thicket of trees, and hearing nothing but forest sounds- I don't hear ambulances constantly, or police sirens, and I don't see police helicopters all over the place- back in Central Cali, that was the everyday norm- you felt like you lived in the middle of L.A., and I was 200 miles away from there in one direction, and 200 miles away from Frisco in the other-

I see it as somewhat of a trade-off----I don't have Yosemite off in the distance, I don't have Pismo an hour and a half away- but there? I don't have all of this, either- and I really do love this!

[JenM]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few comments from someone who lives in Michigan after living in a lot of other places...

Don't confuse Michigan with Detroit.

Honestly, I am so sick of hearing that comment; I just wanna gag! I do not live in Detroit, and yet I am being affected by the same econonic stuff as Detroit. So are many others who DO NOT live anywhere near by; My aunt in Bad Axe, a friend from GR and a cousin of mine who just high-tailed it outta here to Chicago. I mean do we not have the same governor, the same lakes, the same roads, the same people???

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

For the record, I was stating that they have "three of the nations largest" which IS correct. After attending NC State I think I know the correct enrollment. Also, since 2000, we've had the mini crash since 9/11/01, a HUGE amount of homes being put in foreclosure status, as well as a huge displacement of persons due to Katrina and the national economic struggle. That map wouldn't even be recognizable at this point, nearly 10 years later. Go to quick facts.census.govModerator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed Look at the migration of people, and the amount of poverty. That map is completely out-dated. Furthermore, I wasn't comparing the universities of North Carolina to those of Michigan, I was stating that Raleigh, and the particular vicinity has one of the highest populations of college educated people, making it difficult to compete for jobs. If you've ever lived in Raleigh, the town motto is "Tee's Green's and Phd's." If you think 10 years wont change economic structures, statistics, and peoples lives.....well thats just silly. The map posted, (which we don't know who slapped the statistics together), if you know the country well we can start in the west. All the dark red areas represent portions that are EXTREMELY sparse in terms of population. Obviously, no people, no jobs=poverty. What constitutes as "poverty" has also changed since 99-00 when the economy was eons better than currently. Levels of income have changed, companies have gone through huge amounts of corporate engineering, restructuring and outsourcing, millions of jobs lost to overseas ventures, and manufacturing has since dried. Even more silly, the map shows the Detroit area in rather good shape.......??? Wow, even in 2000 the market in Detroit was one of the worst in the country. The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

OK, went to quickfacts.census.gov, "Wayne County, MI, persons below poverty, percent, 2003" = 16.5%. Cross reference that back to the map by CensusScope.org, and bingo, they have Wayne County in that "tannish" color signifying 13.9 - 19.4%. Try another one: "Washtenaw County, persons below poverty, percent, 2003" = 9.6% Cross reference to the map, and whaddayaknow, light green, 9.3 - 13.9%.

I'll even pick whole states from your site, quickfacts.census.

Michigan "persons below poverty" = 11%
North Carolina = 13.4%
South Carolina = 13.8%
Georgia = 13.3%
Alabama = 15.2%
Florida = 13%
Texas = 16.2% (almost as bad as Wayne County (Detroit for you non-Michiganders))
Arizona = 13.9%
Tennessee = 13.5%

All of which are above the national average of 12.5% Shall I continue? I'm not saying that it won't shift somewhat by 2010, but not the massive shift you're suggesting. The whole country's map may turn a little more tan, orange and red, I will give you that.

Not to be picky, but having a student population of 30,000 does not put you in the group of "the largest universities in the country". That's a "mid-sized" public university by pretty much any definition. It's not even in the top 50 for enrollment. But really, what does the size of the universities have anything to do with anything? I know that Raleigh has THE largest percent of people with 4 year and advanced degrees, but maybe too many (the world does need burger flippers, and that's hard to outsource to India).

Interestingly though, I'm sure we could find more points of agreement regarding the state of the national economy, but that might be another topic for another day.

[Sociologist]

Originally Posted by magellan

OK, went to quickfacts.census.gov, "Wayne County, MI, persons below poverty, percent, 2003" = 16.5%. Cross reference that back to the map by CensusScope.org, and bingo, they have Wayne County in that "tannish" color signifying 13.9 - 19.4%. Try another one: "Washtenaw County, persons below poverty, percent, 2003" = 9.6% Cross reference to the map, and whaddayaknow, light green, 9.3 - 13.9%.

I'll even pick whole states from your site, quickfacts.census.

Michigan "persons below poverty" = 11%
North Carolina = 13.4%
South Carolina = 13.8%
Georgia = 13.3%
Alabama = 15.2%
Florida = 13%
Texas = 16.2% (almost as bad as Wayne County (Detroit for you non-Michiganders))
Arizona = 13.9%
Tennessee = 13.5%

All of which are above the national average of 12.5% Shall I continue? I'm not saying that it won't shift somewhat by 2010, but not the massive shift you're suggesting. The whole country's map may turn a little more tan, orange and red, I will give you that.

Not to be picky, but having a student population of 30,000 does not put you in the group of "the largest universities in the country". That's a "mid-sized" public university by pretty much any definition. It's not even in the top 50 for enrollment. But really, what does the size of the universities have anything to do with anything? I know that Raleigh has THE largest percent of people with 4 year and advanced degrees, but maybe too many (the world does need burger flippers, and that's hard to outsource to India).

Interestingly though, I'm sure we could find more points of agreement regarding the state of the national economy, but that might be another topic for another day.

I guess I'm communicating the "wrong" word. Raleigh, and particularly the "triangle" as locals refer it, has one of the highest percentages of people who have attained a B.A., or B.S. And the SUM of all of the students in the area makes it one of the largest concentrations of students in one place, in the U.S. What does the size have to do? Well it gets down to demographics of those schools, and also the graduation rate of those schools. (Most kids who start; finish, which is rare, hence the reason only 25% of the nation holds a advanced degree) It allows companies to be extremely picky regarding who they hire, making a 3.0gpa bad and a 3.5gpa decent. But enough of Raleigh, it makes no difference for us Michiganders who wish they had the stimulating economy of our sun-belt states. Boo Hoo