My map of Midwest/South in Missouri! (St. Louis, Rolla: restaurants, statistics)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

While it might be southern, it's not to the extent of southern like lets say Pemiscot, or Dunklin County in Missouri. Those two counties are southern to the core, delta style. No place in Kentucky can compare to them, as KY is an upland south state. Even in Paducah the people have a strong accent, but at least you can understand them unlike people in the bootheel, TN, Northern MS which you can have a hard time understanding. I work with someone from the Bluff, and you can have a hard time making out what he says, and he's not some old, backwoods hick either.

There is a difference between Upper South and Upland South. Upland South is generally used as a topographic term. Upper South is a cultural term. The bootheel is really more mid-South than anything else. Undeniably southern? yes. Hard to understand? yes. However, they are not Deep South. More than anything they are like northeastern Arkansas, southwest Kentucky, and western tennessee.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Washington County, Missouri does not very strong Upland South culture at all. I know that county like the back of my hand, as that is my area. Washington County has its routes in the Missouri Rhineland, and is quite Midwestern. Not nearly as southern as Scott County, Indiana. Even Rolla doesn't have that kind of Southern influence.

Rolla seems upland south to me. I've been there before. It's southern Indianaish though. However if you go further SW in the county, or the county to the south it picks up though.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Rolla seems upland south to me. I've been there before. It's southern Indianaish though. However if you go further SW in the county, or the county to the south it picks up though.

Yes...topographically it is Upland South. Culturally it is a Midwest/South hybrid.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

There is a difference between Upper South and Upland South. Upland South is generally used as a topographic term. Upper South is a cultural term. The bootheel is really more mid-South than anything else. Undeniably southern? yes. Hard to understand? yes. However, they are not Deep South. More than anything they are like northeastern Arkansas, southwest Kentucky, and western tennessee.

I wouldn't compare the two southern bootheel counties to KY though. Even their accents isn't as strong as the Delta. While far Western KY does have the delta influence, it is nothing like Northern MS, MO bootheel, or NE AR. The state of KY generally feels more uppersouthish. Now Scott County, and Mississippi county, yea they seem similar, but Dunklin, Pemiscott, and southern half of New Madrid County can't really compare to Western KY because those counties are delta.

It is amazing though Western KY isn't that far from the two bootheel counties, but the accents, and culture differ.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Yes...topographically it is Upland South. Culturally it is a Midwest/South hybrid.

Now that is something I will agree with. If Rolla didn't have the college there, and the proffessors from all over the country, It would probably have a more southern feel to it. During the civil war it was pro south until the union moved into the town and took down the Confederate Flag from the courthouse and occupied it.

I44 is a good highway because of the direction it heads you can see the transition from midwest to southern as you head SW bound on it. Unlike I55 where you go from Midwestern then to basically Dixie when you hit Cape Girardeau. The transition zone on I55 is very narrow while i44 is gradual.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Washington County, Missouri does not very strong Upland South culture at all. I know that county like the back of my hand, as that is my area. Washington County has its routes in the Missouri Rhineland, and is quite Midwestern. Not nearly as southern as Scott County, Indiana. Even Rolla doesn't have that kind of Southern influence.

What explains the ridiculously low educational attiainment levels in Washington County, MO?

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Now that is something I will agree with. If Rolla didn't have the college there, and the proffessors from all over the country, It would probably have a more southern feel to it. During the civil war it was pro south until the union moved into the town and took down the Confederate Flag from the courthouse and occupied it.

I44 is a good highway because of the direction it heads you can see the transition from midwest to southern as you head SW bound on it. Unlike I55 where you go from Midwestern then to basically Dixie when you hit Cape Girardeau. The transition zone on I55 is very narrow while i44 is gradual.

Oh give it a rest will you. The college? You seem to attribute everything Midwestern about it to something minor. A college doesn't have the power to change a town's identity. Rolla has always been that way. However pro-South it was during the Civil War, it was split in allegiances, like most of Missouri at the time. While you continue on your crusade to make Missouri back into a Confederate state, I've got more important things to worry about. The Civil War's over...the definition of the South has changed, and Missouri, at least most of it, is no longer a part of it. Focus on the modern wars, like the World Series, which by the way, has the Cards playing a Southern team

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Oh give it a rest will you. The college? You seem to attribute everything Midwestern about it to something minor. A college doesn't have the power to change a town's identity. Rolla has always been that way. However pro-South it was during the Civil War, it was split in allegiances, like most of Missouri at the time. While you continue on your crusade to make Missouri back into a Confederate state, I've got more important things to worry about. The Civil War's over...the definition of the South has changed, and Missouri, at least most of it, is no longer a part of it. Focus on the modern wars, like the World Series, which by the way, has the Cards playing a Southern team

Actually I'd consider Dallas a border South/Southwestern City.

Most people today think of Texas and see Southwest.

And yes on a small town a college can play a factor. Just ask THBgunner about Cape Girardeau in the summer compared to the winter when schools in session. He says it feels more southern when schools not in session.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

What explains the ridiculously low educational attiainment levels in Washington County, MO?

lol. You honestly attribute those aspects to culture? Maybe it's the topography? Not the culture? You need to be specific when you say Upland South...either you mean topographically, or culturally, in which case you need to call it Upper South. Topographically, to a degree Washington County, Missouri is Southern...parts of it, especially near the Missouri River, are very fertile farmland. Culturally, it is not the Upper South. The Upper South (cultural Upland South) truly begins about at or below Rolla, then transitions to mid-South (boot-heel style) eventually once you get far enough south into Arkansas. I'm going to bed. This is really all a big game. We obviously will not see eye-to-eye, so it's ridiculous for us to continue this game.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Actually I'd consider Dallas a border South/Southwestern City.

Most people today think of Texas and see Southwest.

And yes on a small town a college can play a factor. Just ask THBgunner about Cape Girardeau in the summer compared to the winter when schools in session. He says it feels more southern when schools not in session.

Most people would be wrong then. Texas as a whole state is southern. It contributed the most troops for the Confederacy of any state in the Civil War. Dallas' identity is with Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Houston, Memphis, and New Orleans. Has nothing in common with Denver, Albuquerque, or Phoenix. It may be southwestern in that it borders Mexico, but many will tell you that Texas is really the "Western South", not the Southwest. I'm out of gas...you obviously won't take no for an answer. Good luck with your mission, whatever it is, and good riddance.