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Ugh, the school discussion again. People are so obsessed with statistics. Look, if you (as parents) place a high value on education and you and your children associate with others who feel the same way, your child will be fine.
I don't think you need to spend a fortune on a house in Millburn to find this out. I wouldn't want my child to go to a poorly performing school district, but I wouldn't want my child growing up to be a snob who thinks a trip to the Short Hills Mall is a vast cultural experience, either. And before anyone invokes the false Bible that is NJ Monthly Magazine, remember - they don't hire statisticians, they hire editors and ad salesmen. There's a reason why only certain towns in North Jersey (not coincidentally, where they have heavy subscription and advertiser bases) seem to have the "best" schools, doctors, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers in their rankings.
good point gambler. i'm not trying to quote it as bible, just looking for stats and rankings. bottom line is, they can't be horrendously off without some backlash when it comes to something like school ranking. even if their margin of error is a few off, you can still get a general sense of the schools from their rankings no?
i'm all for better rankings, and of course stats can tell you anything.
short hills mall isn't a cultural experience? i find it hugely entertaining to visit! lol
NJ Monthly is acceptable as a reputable ranking system by most educators. Lots of stats on different factors that may be important for parents. However, if their is one criticism of NJ monthly among many academic observers is its heavy weighted slant on "adding a large % of extra points on socio economic status of districts".
A distric letter J ( Top Tier Affluent District) would get penalized more than a letter I district ( 2nd top tier Affuent district). A letter GH district like West Orange would get less points than a Letter B district from Jersey city ( since B is lower than GH)
So for informative purposes, its fine. It still gives the reader an overall idea of how their district is doing.
But if it took away any " Socio-Economic" adjustments in the equation, a school like Jersey City's McNair Academic ( which is a very good magnet school for talented kids in JC ) would not even make the cut in the top 10. ( as opposed to being ranked between # 1 to # 3 in the entire state of NJ for the last 3 NJ Monthly rankings since 2004. )
While a Letter I status Glen Ridge, ( which has a superb district of upper middle class students) would drop down a few notches from its # 5 rankings & would be surpassed by a Letter J status district of Ridgewood & Chatham. ( if socio-economic adjustments were not made)
So from a purely unbiased, no human interventation, fact based #'s of student SAT's, % going to 4 yr colleges, % of of those who graduate, % of those taking AP's, etc. - the rankings would have similarities but changes would also happen.
Many educators prefer the Wall Street Journal rankings of High Schools. The only problem is they come out with it less frequently than a NJ Monthly or US News. They also mix all the states together. The only other major difference is Wall Street Journal ranks Private & Public schools together. They make no distinction or any weight whether its private or public. Its pretty head to head based on #'s.
The other reason many educators find Wall Street Journal more appealing is it goes for what many parents consider " MORE RELEVANT" than just SAT scores or # of AP classes.
They go for " What Colleges do students get accepted", " % of students in each high school that are accepted in Top Tier 1 Colleges, % of students who attend 4 yr. instutions", etc.
NJ Monthly & US News gives more statistics per say, but what WSJ gives is " Bottom Line" information for what many, if not most parents want to know. They are suppose to come out with their next one for 2010-2011.
The Wall street Journal shows strong showing of schools in states like Massachusetts, New York, California & New Jersey. The only drawback ( or should I say it reconfirms) is that it exposes why the Rich & Affluent send their kids to these expensive private schools. It produces results in terms of giving their kids a Better Shot, a higher probability of getting accepted into the best colleges in the nation.
Its no suprise that highest performing High schools are the same High schools that powerful people like George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, John Kerry, Al Gore, George H. Bush, Chelsea Clinton attended.
marie - i'm curious as to what you mean about the socio-economic adjustments. can you explain what they're adjusting? and based on what? does it spell this methodology out on their site? i'm curious. thanks!
Brad- they gather specific data per district based on factors such as :
1) Percent of adults with no high school diploma
2) Percent of adults with some college education
3) Occupational status
4) Unemployment rate
5) Percent of individuals in poverty
6) Median family income
They then take the above into consideration, assign values(points) & take all the above into account in determining what would likely occur if ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL should happen.
I'm not sure if all this is spelled out in the NJ Monthly Mag.
Concept is somewhat similar to "extra points" assigned to specific college applicant especially in Tier 1 & Tier 2 Colleges. These applicants who may be disadvantaged based on Economic and/or Racial factors. A lower test score is not an automatic rejection due to possible socio-economic factors of the student. Additional points are assigned to the final decision outcome to see if applicant makes it or not into the college.
makes sense. so they try to compensate for some of those intangibles, like some parents caring more than others. obviously - not an exact science. interesting though! thanks.
But if it took away any " Socio-Economic" adjustments in the equation, a school like Jersey City's McNair Academic ( which is a very good magnet school for talented kids in JC ) would not even make the cut in the top 10
This is actually not true. If you look at the SAT scores, and ignore everything else, it still makes the top 10 (though not 1-3 any more), and handily beats Glen Ridge.
elflord, i'm very familiar with lower merion. i am not sure what you define as "middle clas", but only the upper middle class can afford to live in that school district, even in the "more affordable" parts of it.
Take a look at listings in Ardmore, Narberth and Belmont Hills. Plenty of places in the low 200s. Of course these are very small, but you do get to go to Lower Merion schools, and we're talking about a mortgage payment lower than your Millburn property tax bill.
Housing prices look about 1/3 lower to me than similar places in New York, and there is more available on the lower end (e.g. twins, row houses, and smaller houses).
Likewise, there are places in Havertown (Haverford school district) in that price range.
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not sure where you commute to, but driving around philly to get to some parts is a nightmare, not to mention you have to take on the cost of a car and insurance (philly insurance isn't cheap either, even by NJ standards!).
Quite a bit cheaper than NJ ! I don't drive into the city, but unlike Manhattan it is possible.
I got a slight bump in compensation after I moved, and with housing costs about 2/3 of what they are in North Jersey, that's not a bad deal.
I guess I never got to enjoy this "NY salary" thing (even with a "Wall Street" job -- with all those state workers making 200k+, you really need to rake it in to live in the nicer towns. My understanding is that the rank and file on Wall St are largely making under 150k, though there are some (traders and bankers) who may make much more than that.
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