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I feel its so stupid people like Obama are not allowed to acknowledge their White side in this society. People of a mulitiracial background should be allowed to fully represent all their backgrounds without feeling repercussions. The one drop rule is archaic, and so is the whole you look Black and are perceived as Black so just label yourself as Black. He's Bi-racial. Tiger Woods is multi-racial.
Agreed - People were even saying obama is NOT "black" since he's not a descendant of a slave i.e., his father is DIRECTLY from kenya. If people are not aware, there are "problems" between Africans and American Blacks......
For the Cuban/Hispanic affair - well, I have a Spaniard friend who came here for graduate school. Initially, she will get "funny looks" from colleagues when she spoke Spanish - never mind that she looked just like Jenn Garner..... However, once the word got out she was European, the reception was V.I.P like and people actually said to her with RELIEF - "oh you're from EUROPE? we thought you were "Mexican!!!".
I doubt Megan in Colorado will "accept" someone named "Torres" as white - even if their "skin tones" are mirror images of each other.
Well unfortunately I think he would receive a lot of backlash from the Black community if he ran as a Bi-racial candidate. It didn't make a whole lot of political sense. Just look at all the backlash Tiger Woods got for acknowledging his complete racial background.
The case with Tiger Woods is funny/sad/interesting because even though he's always stated that he is multi-racial, the media almost always refers to him as Black, which only makes a lot of Black people get angryer at him for what they perceive as him denying his Blackness.
First off thanks to you, Guy and Crisp for answering my question as I was curious about that. In the case of what you are discussing here, the roots of that go way back, as I'm sure everyone is aware. A lot of Black Americans (I don't know the percentage but everyone that I have ever known) are of mixed heritage but due to the history of this country there was no reason to celebrate it. Why celebrate a heritage that does not want you? For those that did attempt to accept their White heritage (whatever it may have been) and blend into White society, there was a disconnect with their family and their upbringing. A friend of mine from New Orleans had an aunt that was able to "pass" in the 40's and moved away from her family and did not allow them into her new life for fear that someone would find out she had Blacks in her family. Only as she got older did she attempt to reunite with them. Their was also a negative connotation with Whites who married and had children with Blacks. They were not accepted into White neighborhoods per se but if the mix was with another ethnicity then those connotations were not as negative.
Things are different now but when I hear a Black American state that they are not Black but are African Japanese Irish and Indian then it raises a little flag since it appears as if you are not accepting of your Black heritage in America. I say that with the thought that I could walk around and say that I am mixed with African, Native American and Irish but by saying I am a Black American it is a basically a given that I am mixed with something else other than African and I find no disgrace in acknowledging it.
I hope that I am explaining this the right way since I really don't sit around thinking about it and also I cannot speak for anyone else but myself. As another poster mentioned there can be an issue with Black Americans and some Africans. I have not had an issue but from my understanding some Africans do not consider Black Americans true Africans the way that a Dominican can be raised in America but when they go to DR they are considered Dominican with a shared heritage. Personally I have no clue where my ancestors are from in Africa and that part of my heritage is not available to me. I mean Africa is huge and many different countries and cultures share that continent so saying African American is not a very truthful statement as far as acknowledging my heritage. All it means is that my ancestors are from some spot on the continent. If you are Mexican you can consider yourself truthfully a Mexican American you would not say I'm a South American American, Cuba - a Cuban American, Italy - an Italian American not a European American and so on. I don't have a clue if my ancestors are from Senegal, Rwanda, the Congo, Malawi, Ghana or Egypt per se and utilizing a whole continent as my heritage is very misleading. For me, going back to my heritage is going back down south to North Carolina because that is where my parents, grand parents and great grand parents lived. Due to the history of America, being a Black American or African American (whichever term is perferable) is very unique and because of that you would want someone that shares your heritage to embrace and acknowledge it. Truth be told my heritage is derived from slaves and the mixture of cultures that combined in order to survive during that time period.
I am not saying that other Blacks have not shared and experienced the same kind of thing but as stated earlier, Blacks in other countries can call themselves White and I guess be treated in a different manner then Blacks in America, regardless of your mixed heritage (and I stress this is not what is going on today because race relations in America have come a long way). Like I said earlier, I cannot speak for other Black Americans and my thoughts are my own. I also don't want anyone thinking that I am harking on slavery, Jim Crow laws or anything like that because it is not relevant at this time but for me to deny it or ignore it is ignoring my heritage and my ancestors that lived through it to make me who I am today. All of this to say that is why some Blacks may take offense to someone like Tiger Woods who may prefer to be acknowledged by their ethnicity rather than by their race (I really don't know for sure his thoughts and I have never taken a big interest on how he feels about this). Black and White are just races that cover a wide range of ethnicities and there should be no shame in saying or acknowledging that your Black and still acknowledging whatever heritage you have but by being mixed with Black and White you are considered Black in America. In America you are basically Black, White or Other and I think Other is more for Asians. Different ethnicities fall into the racial categories but I don't think that I have seen or heard anyone who falls into the White race stress what ethnic group they belong to. I mean if someone says you're White it's cool. If the next question is where are you from then you talk about your heritage and say "Oh my mother is Italian and my father is from Scotland", then that is cool but if someone says your Black and you go "No, I'm Phillipine, Scottish and African" that is not cool. Which is different from someone from Jamaica that may be offended by being called an African American when they consider themselves Jamaican or someone calling a Puerto Rican a Dominican. The offense does not come from someone calling you out of your race but out of your ethnic heritage. That is a major difference.
1-The idea that Hispanics share a common language is not "a theory"..they do! The idea that Hispanics share a common a heritage is not "a theory"..they do! No we do not all look, act, speak, exactly alike..but there are underlying beliefs, cultural aspects, customs, that make us far more similar than we are different.
When I said "in theory," I meant that it's not always so in practice (ie. younger Hispanics who don't really identify with being "Hispanic;" also, "Hispanics" who grow up with very little cultural/lingual influence from their parents/families and thus don't know much about being Hispanic at all). However, largely, we are in agreement that Hispanics DO share a common language and culture. I've stated this in several other posts (remember our discussion about this that lasted like 25 pages?) We really don't disagree on this.
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause
Why do I bring this up? Because the reality is, in Miami, and surrounded by your safety zone, Cubans are viewed as white..and that's great. But when you venture out of those very small circles, you are still Juan del Pueblo..whether you "look" whatever. That is not to say that you guranteed to be attacked or victimized, but you are viewed by this country as Hispanic, and all the good and bad that comes with that. To dismiss all other Hispanic cultures, as too many Cubans do, for whatever reason, is a gross failure to recognize the importance of unity, working together, equality, and the value of all our cultures. That disdain for all things Hispanic (other than Cuban of course) is a sickness.
It should be noted, however, I am not singling out Cubans....it just happens to be that I am responding to Crispy's comments..who remains a good friend! This conversation would be easier to have in person...when we gonna hang anyway?
I don't think that this is directed to me personally; I think that you are just directing this to some Cubans or other "snobby"/"elitist" Hispanics. However, if you have any inkling of doubt that I myself have a "disdain for all things Hispanic (other than Cuban of course)", I suggest you read my post history and see how many times I have defended Latin Americans from various countries (and territories), including people from the island of Puerto Rico. If I have any disdain, it is not directed at "Hispanics," but rather at extremist factions (like Mecha, la Raza, etc.) and people who give Hispanics a bad name. Another very maddening thing is to hear (usually non-white, usually non-wealthy) Hispanic people saying things like "no Hispanic person can be white." This is an opinion and it runs contrary to my own. In my experience living not only in Miami, Boston, and New York, but also in Spain, I have known a lot of non-Hispanic people who have accepted Hispanics as "white." However, (surprise, surprise) the people most likely to resist this concept are lower-income people who grew up in "minority" ghettos. You'd be surprised at how happy Anglos/Jews are to accept you when they see that you - despite your distinct ethnic and lingual heritage - can be just like them, even in appearance. You can tell me all you want that people in Iowa or Missouri or wherever may not accept a (white) Hispanic person as "white," but the experience of myself and many friends of mine is drastically different. I really don't know how you can argue this because I'm not saying "this is how it works in this country; this is "how it is"; I am just saying that this is what I have observed.
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause
Also...it should be noted that I have experienced very little outward hostility towards me in my life..wherever I have laid my head...and I have never carried the victim mentality.
I'm really glad to hear that. I kind of thought that you HAD experienced prejudice (I can't really say "racism" given that you appear to be relatively white) based on your views of many people not being willing to accept Hispanics. And I am glad to hear that you reject the victim mentality because you have too much good going for you to be a "victim."
Oh, and I'll DM you about getting together this summer... I have a lot of extra time now that I am working M-F, 9-5!
Well Tiger Woods' mom is Asian (with some Euro ancestry) and his father was part Asian as well. So again I think it's pretty ridiculous that he gets any kind of backlash for acknowledging that heritage. I understand the reasoning behind it, but its time people start seeing the shortcomings of a lot of the flawed thinking that has plagued this country...
I think it varies depending on the region, but yes White Hispanics can commonly blend in and "be accepted," in mainstream White American society. However, and this is a big if, as soon as you get a little too ethnic all of that is thrown out the window.
Here in NYC, its not as common due to several reasons. But for example take a White Nuyorican somewhere else, get rid of certain of local cultural strains and he would probably easily blend in with Joe Blow White folks.
Race has always been a big lie. No one is of truly pure race. Modern genetic testing has proved the lie. When we speak of race today, we can really only speak of appearance. All of us have well mixed genetics. Before the middle of the last centure, being white was privileged. People wanted to be white for the benefits. Now, being a minority - and preferably a minority that gets counted as a minority for benefits - gets privileged, and people want to take advantage of that privilege. Look at the rise in the number of people identifying themselves as Native Americans. Until we as a society accept the fact that "race" and "skin color" don't matter, there will continue to be unnecessary divisions in our society. I realize that it's going to take a long time to get there.
Race has always been a big lie. No one is of truly pure race. Modern genetic testing has proved the lie. When we speak of race today, we can really only speak of appearance. All of us have well mixed genetics. Before the middle of the last centure, being white was privileged. People wanted to be white for the benefits. Now, being a minority - and preferably a minority that gets counted as a minority for benefits - gets privileged, and people want to take advantage of that privilege. Look at the rise in the number of people identifying themselves as Native Americans. Until we as a society accept the fact that "race" and "skin color" don't matter, there will continue to be unnecessary divisions in our society. I realize that it's going to take a long time to get there.
I disagree with your underlying point. I know of few people who like the "minority," tag and all that comes along with it. It is mostly seen as a burden and an obstacle, not something that you can reap benefits from.
Well Tiger Woods' mom is Asian (with some Euro ancestry) and his father was part Asian as well. So again I think it's pretty ridiculous that he gets any kind of backlash for acknowledging that heritage. I understand the reasoning behind it, but its time people start seeing the shortcomings of a lot of the flawed thinking that has plagued this country...
I probably didn't explain it well. The issue that I was trying to illustrate is not the acknowledgement of the ethnic heritage, nobody cares about that. Any backlash that Tiger may have received was not because of his ethnic heritage. If Tiger's heritage placed his skin tone in the White category would he have been so quick to clarify that no I'm not White I'm "Cablinasian". I doubt it as he would probably have no issue being identified in that category. That is the issue that I was attempting to explain and it is offensive to someone who considers themselves Black. Is it a major thing? Probably not but something that people might voice their opinion on.
First of I just want to welcome all Mexicans and Mexican Americans to NYC. We love your food and culture. Cinco de Mayo is catching on in NYC! Replying to the original thread starter, I think there are many Mexicans in NYC, but mostly in Queens. I know there is also a substantial Mexican population in East Harlem.
Puerto Rican and Mexican relations have not been merry in East Harlem, but I hope that things have improved or will improve in the future since both groups are really cousins. I think the problem is that the Puerto Ricans in East Harlem are mostly Nuyoricans while the Mexicans are immigrants. The Spanish language bond amongst these two particular hispanic groups may have been lost. I think Nuyoricans and Chicanos (Mexican Amerians) would get along just well.
I also dislike the fact that there is now somewhat of a bond between Puerto Rican and Dominican Americans against new Mexican immigrants. I grew up in the Bronx when it wasn't cool to be Dominican. Back then, not too long ago, tensions between Dominican and Puerto Ricans were at its worst. I'm talking about being the only Dominican in my classroom while I was in elementary school and one of maybe three in a high school class. Fights would break out constantly after school, it was a complete disaster. Think West Side Story but change Dominicans for Whites.
Now after an influx of Dominicans from Washington Heights, inter-marriages between both groups and Bachata/Merengue going mainstream, things have cooled down. I know for a fact that the same story will repeat itself for Mexicans. We're all going to become one mix of Hispanics like White Americans of European descent trace their "nationality" - a word I hate because your American, really should be ethnicity - to mostly Ireland, Italy and Germany.
All the talk about Mexicans being quieter than Puerto Ricans and Dominicans is baloney. Just look at Mexican Americans on the west coast, same demographic group, same issues. The thing is that when immigrants come into this country they primarily stick to themselves and concentrate on working. The children of immigrants on the other hand, accept their background, and at the same time become a part of the US. They also want to leave their mark on American society.
The problem starts when we as a group start to accept the negatives of the inner-city hiphop culture. We celebrate gangs, crime, laziness, bling and all that nonsense. Not to say that all immigrants are saints, but the fact is that most at least are working. The same happened to Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and will probably happen to Mexicans. Again, I'm not saying that these groups are ghetto, but there is a good chunk in these communities that have accepted the ghetto culture as their own. I'm pretty sure their ancestors are turning in their grave. Just like Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico shun uneducated and ghetto Nuyoricans.
Anyway, all this bashing between Hispanics really needs to stop. You all know that to English speakers we are "Spanish". When we are not! Another hot debate - Spanish, Hispanic or Latino, What do you consider yourself? LOL
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I kind of thought that you HAD experienced prejudice (I can't really say "racism" given that you appear to be relatively white) based on your views of many people not being willing to accept Hispanics. And I am glad to hear that you reject the victim mentality because you have too much good going for you to be a "victim."
