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I am being real, and putting this into perspective. Benjamin Franklin is probably rolling over in his grave!
Case in point, the lawyer referenced in previous post. You cannot destroy one persons life under the perception that you might be making life better for others. It's a fine line to walk, and cross. These are not the ideals this country was founded upon. There are ways to deal with this situation without sacrificing our personal liberties.
We are the United States of America. We hold ourselves to higher standards, and we have sacrificed them out of fear. The terrorists have won, in that regard.
Nothing will give us permanent safety.
If Franklin is rolling over, it's at all the bleeding heart ultra-liberals who have abused the Constitution and in so doing use it to pander to the extremists, placate them, talk sweet nothings to them, and pray that they don't hit us again.
If Franklin is rolling over, it's at all the bleeding heart ultra-liberals who have abused the Constitution and in so doing use it to pander to the extremists, placate them, talk sweet nothings to them, and pray that they don't hit us again.
Actually, if you read Franklin's works, you'd find he would most likely be in their camp. He was a smart guy, and his words are almost prophetic now.
Regardless:
The problem with our country right now is blaming "bleeding heart libs" for one thing and "evil neocons" for the other. Both sides are guilty of abusing the Constitution.
What we need to do is find the best solution for our problems, lib, neocon, green, whatever... without violating the core values of what makes us American. We need to lead by example, or we stoop to the level of the very people who attacked us.
Cameras are nothing new, the widespread use of them is what would be new. There have been cameras in some locations for years. It all depends upon what they are used for, but in today's age, the reasonable expectation of privacy ends at one's door in the physical universe.
I think the cameras are a great idea and I am one of the biggest " wild eyed liberals" there is.As bmwguy points out the reasonable expectation of privacy ends at ones door.
Already,the streets,where most crime occurs,are virtually the only place left where there aren't cameras.They are in every store,every bank,subway platforms,some buses and subways,store changing rooms,building lobbies,building hallways.public restrooms,schools,etc,etc..... virtually everywhere except where they really should be.How much sense does that make?
In a lot of Europe ,there are cameras in almost every stop light.If you run a red light you will get a ticket in the mail with a picture of you(yes,it shows your actual face).As a result,people don't run red lights.
if you do not have the volition to punish criminals, then all you will have is a nice photo album. its works in england bek the got punishment. we lawyer up here so we got no punishment. disneyland for criminals.
LOL. Ok, that part of the post was obviously not neccessary. We all have opinions and as long as you can back them up logically is all that matters (IMO). I am against having cameras in neighborhoods as this to me promotes the feeling as though the community is all criminals who can't be trusted without being watched 24/7.
My MAIN concern is that this whole atmosphere that has been created by Bush and his cohardts (Patriot Act I & II) about "Terroism" and "Safety" and that we have to take all these rights away from you in order to ensure your safety which is ABSOLUTE Mod cut: language. Our founding fathers have put in place these civil liberities for good reason and they are literally being stripped from us in an undemocratic way. NOONE has yet to prove to me how taking civil liberities away from people is "helping" us, NOONE (I haven't seen it in this thread yet either).
Beside the fact that we all know that the cameras are only going up in CERTAIN neighborhoods, the question I have in response to the thread started is WHERE DOES IT STOP?
Please don't give me that civil LIBERTY speech. LOL.
Cameras DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT make a person feel like we're all criminals unless you have a GUILTY conscience and did dirt in the past or currently still do it. Thats the bottom line.
Do you feel like a criminal when you go shopping at Walmart and see cameras in the ceiling?
Do you feel like a criminal when you go to Atlantic City to gamble and see a million camera in the sky?
Do you feel like a criminal when you walk in front of an apartment building that has cameras recording their sidewalk?
Do you feel like a criminal when you go to the bodega to get a soda and see cameras catching everyone who comes in the store?
Answer me this...why do YOU feel singled out? Why do you ASSUME you are being treated as a criminal or feel like a criminal when you know you didn't do anything wrong?
There has to be an underlining issue with you that happened to you in the past for you to feel this way. I guess you were traumatized from a bad experience with the law so now you have this bad feeling of people judging you as a criminal. Please give me a break.
I NEVER did a crime in my life. I don't hustle or sell drugs, I don't drink in public, I don't sell bootleg CDs or DVDs. I don't mug people, I don't smoke weed, I don't steal cars, I DON'T do anything NEGATIVE and don't have the desire to. It's that simple.
So when I walk anywhere that has cameras, I DON'T FEEL LIKE A CRIMINAL OR FEEL LIKE MY "RIGHTS" HAVE BEEN VIOLATED because I have NOTHING to hide. If anything, I feel SAFER because I know that if something was to go down, its ALL ON VIDEO. A video/picture is worth a thousand words.
That is a different situation, those are private establishments. You have the choice to not patronize those establishments. You will not have the choice if a camera is pointed directly at your doorstep.
I've never been arrested, I do not participate in illegal activities, and I do not agree with the cameras. I think it's a violation of our basic rights as Americans.
A question. Would you feel that your rights had been violated had video of you been used in an improper manner not related to a crime?
if you do not have the volition to punish criminals, then all you will have is a nice photo album. its works in england bek the got punishment. we lawyer up here so we got no punishment. disneyland for criminals.
EXCELLENT point. If you got busted on video doing a crime...whats your defense? Ummmmmmmm.....? You have NONE! It's a clear cut case with charges that STICK. And you PAY for what you did. Another criminal off the streets=a nuisance out the neighborhood which makes the area a bit more safer.
EXCELLENT point. If you got busted on video doing a crime...whats your defense? Ummmmmmmm.....? You have NONE! It's a clear cut case with charges that STICK. And you PAY for what you did. Another criminal off the streets=a nuisance out the neighborhood which makes the area a bit more safer.
Ok, another question.
You look very similar to someone committing a crime and are charged, or maybe arrested and held, based on video evidence alone.
What now?
I have to say, I'm not as concerned about that aspect of it. More concerned about the potential for abuse of the system.
A question. Would you feel that your rights had been violated had video of you been used in an improper manner not related to a crime?
How so? You are not making sense. A video does not lie. I can NEVER EVER be charged with murder that was caught on camera unless you see me ACTUALLY killing the person.
So to answer your question....NO, I would NOT feel like my rights have been violated.
Remember, your rights END once you step a foot out your door. Everything after that should be fair game.
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