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Id like to know what rural town of TN you live in. The closest "town" to me has a population of, well its so small it dosent have its own census population. The entire county has a population less than 50,000. Ive lived here 35 years. And I just dont see what you describe. I dont believe southern women are anymore docile and subservient, abused, married or dependant than they are anywhere else. Maybe its just who you keep company with. The women I know are pretty tough. Many live alone and do their own maintenance, they fish, hunt, go 4-wheeling, ride horses, motorcycles, camp, canoe, work out etc.
Maybe it is the town I live in; it does seem like the twilight zone sometimes. Perhaps subserviant is defined differently by everyone, but the way I see it all southern women I have ever known have been this way where they are nothing more than an unpaid slave to their husband, have zero say so in the family, are ordered around and talked down to like they have an IQ of 20 and the women have to get permission from the husband to do anything. This seems to be going away though with the younger generation. I have given up on finding any female friends to do things with because all the ones my age and older who are friendly with me can't get permission from their husband to go out for lunch alone, shopping or anything else. It is good to know your town isn't like this (and I may file that away for future reference when I have opportunity to move again) as I have yet to ever hear tale of any woman in this town who lives alone and is self sufficient besides myself. The female neighbors I have that live alone are all widowed and they are unable to do anything for themselves. There is one young female neighbor, but her parents come over and help her with everything all the time and I have never once seen her look under the hood of her car or have the least bit of dirt on her.
Maybe it is the town I live in; it does seem like the twilight zone sometimes. Perhaps subserviant is defined differently by everyone, but the way I see it all southern women I have ever known have been this way where they are nothing more than an unpaid slave to their husband, have zero say so in the family, are ordered around and talked down to like they have an IQ of 20 and the women have to get permission from the husband to do anything. This seems to be going away though with the younger generation. I have given up on finding any female friends to do things with because all the ones my age and older who are friendly with me can't get permission from their husband to go out for lunch alone, shopping or anything else. It is good to know your town isn't like this (and I may file that away for future reference when I have opportunity to move again) as I have yet to ever hear tale of any woman in this town who lives alone and is self sufficient besides myself. The female neighbors I have that live alone are all widowed and they are unable to do anything for themselves. There is one young female neighbor, but her parents come over and help her with everything all the time and I have never once seen her look under the hood of her car or have the least bit of dirt on her.
I always considered my area the twilight zone (I lived in the North for the first 13 years but visited here often) and I have seen a few women as you described, but again that can be seen anywhere. Most of the women who live alone are older, divorced or widowed. The younger ones may have female roomates due to finances. None of my friends need permission from their SO's for any personal engagements. I just havent witnessed this sterotypical southern woman as you describe to be common, not even in the Mennonite community where there is a distinct line between jobs women do and jobs men do. I think you need to move.
Having grown up in South, moved and came back yes have to agree most, not all, Southern women over the age of say 35, are very docile and submissive. If you didn't get married at 18 and pop out some kids you are considered a freak at least in the rural areas where I live. (I still recall being 19 and teaching martial arts at this school and little kids asking me what was wrong with me and why I wasn't married and had kids yet. At 19!!!) I have yet to meet one other woman here my age without kids and at least one marriage in this area though in other states I've lived I knew plenty childless women who were even older. I think its the religion keeps most women submissive. One thing comes to mind is how Tennessee has twice been named the state with the highest domestic abuse rates against women, which I do see and hear a lot of so I can't dispute it, and I think a lot of naive country girls do get the crap knocked out of them till they become very submissive because of low self esteem. Guys are startled here to see me do anything independent-like such as I was told by a young man recently I was a "weirdo" because I am the only woman who works out at this rural gym and I fish alone and am a WOMAN. God forbid a woman be able to bait a hook on her own. I also get raised eyebrows from the neighbors for doing the simplest routine car maintenance. It is considered wrong if you are a woman in a rural town and do these things because girls are suppose to be stupid and unable to do anything but keep up the house, make babies and worry over their hair and nails. I don't mind doors being held open for me because that's better than the young guys that now slam them shut in your face lol and I try to hold doors open for others, both men and women, when I can. I love the courtesy of the older generation in some of the small towns where everyone is polite and will stop and talk to you, but I do hate being treated as a freak because I'm not a dumb broad.
if a woman wants to work on her own car, I just let her do it...if she breaks anything on it then she will learn something on her own...I still hold the door for my girl and she appreciates it....she cranks her own wrenches on her explorer....she is her fathers daughter....gotta love it
I'm not the typical Southern woman by a long shot.
Smoky, if you have not yet learned, all women are stereo-typed. It makes some men feel secure if they can categorize something, put a label on it, and then dismiss it. No one is their label.
Southern women to me are pretty strong-willed bunch.
As in "walk softly, but carry a big stick."
But you can see how someone from another region such as the Northeast or the West Coast may not "get" them (as in understand them) and see them as mostly (a) demure and coy, or (b) pouring in on too thick. I am sure there are other striations. However, I really think they do better with men from their own region.
Smoky, if you have not yet learned, all women are stereo-typed. It makes some men feel secure if they can categorize something, put a label on it, and then dismiss it. No one is their label.
Oh, please, the South is a region with a distinct set of cultural, historical, micro-climatic, and socioeconomic attributes. It makes for different people. The same way where you live (and I once lived VERY close to you, on the East Side) has its own regional and cultural norms, making it feel like a cross between Ecotopia and Scandinavia, and if you can't see that, you're in denial ... or you've been living in that metro are too long.
Oh, please, the South is a region with a distinct set of cultural, historical, micro-climatic, and socioeconomic attributes. It makes for different people. The same way where you live (and I once lived VERY close to you, on the East Side) has its own regional and cultural norms, making it feel like a cross between Ecotopia and Scandinavia, and if you can't see that, you're in denial ... or you've been living in that metro are too long.
I agree with you. And I am a quintessential Southern female, from debutante to shooting turkeys.
Things are different here, but not so much in some regions as opposed to others. Where I live in Charlotte, NC, we have more transplants than natives, so there is very little Southern culture left.
However, the whole thing about the "dependent, docile Southern female" is just lost on me. I have heard it all my life but I have never seen it.
The women in my family, as well as my friends, are more Steel Magnolias than easily manipulated docile females.
We know how to look good . . . that is true. But dear me . . . just b/c we may keep our manicures and pedicures up and like to have a good hair cut . . . what part of this country has women who DO NOT do that?
And for anyone who mentioned Southern women mixing with Midwestern men. . . my hubby is from St. Louis and had never lived but the midwest til he met me. When I married him and moved to the midwest, I LOVED it there. And although I found people (male and female) had some really really weird ideas about Southern women, I was so happy in the midwest and found the men very attractive (personalilty and humor).
I did think a lot of what I heard - women saying really disparaging things about their husbands and men in general - a put off. It is like that is a ritual . . . "men suck and women put up with so much." This was especially true in the Chicago area more than any other place I spent time. I don't understand that kind of emasculating behavior . . . I want my man to adore me and the way you do that is to make sure he feels adored. Now if THAT seems docile and anti-feminist, then folks don't know what either of those words mean.
The South celebrates eccentricities. Crazy Aunt Louise. Uncle Bob, who pinches butts after drinking too much. I did find women in the cities of Chicago and Kansas City very confrontational at times (w/ their spouses) and I thought to myself - you get more cooperation and a better attitude being sweet. So yes, there are differences in the way Southern females deal with their men, but somehow, there have been some odd stereotype that have developed that Southern women take abuse when the reality is - someone will be hit up side the head with an iron skillet if they are abusing their wife or children. And then Daddy and brothers will show up to kick abusive husband's arse.
Just b/c Southern females are known to smile in public and address issues behind closed doors . . . it is silly to label them docile! We believe in good manners and public displays are cardinal sins. Good manners mean a lot more to us than making a point and putting people down. We also believe in keeping our mouths shut as to make an arse out of one's self in public is not civil behavior. I thnk this is mistaken for passive behavior. Au contraire! We may choose not to address an issue on the spot (in public) but we never forget and justice will be ours in the end (when the recipient least expects it). Or we may choose to simply let the universe deal with uncouth people.
You know the adage: "What goes around, comes around" ??? That is what Southern women believe in. Treat me crappy and I don't necessarily have to do a thing at all - cause the universe is gonna bite you in the butt eventually. Karma takes care of most situations and without our having to lift a finger.
We have a sisterhood in the South. Southern women will come to the aid of other women. We are very loyal. We don't understand women who are divisive, even tho we surely have crazy people in our family who are dysfunctional as anywhere else in the world. Women stick together, but do not see men as adversaries. The perfect situation is when our men respect us and admire us so deeply that they simply want to make us happy - cause they get rewarded in return. I would think that is what every man and woman, regardless where they were raised, would want. We just believe getting to that point involves lots of positive reinforcement, not negative putdowns and harping. If that makes us docile in the eyes of the rest of the country, so what. It sure has worked for me.
Last edited by brokensky; 08-25-2012 at 02:36 PM..
Good Lord. I lived in Texas for three years and NEVER got the impression that the women were docile and submissive, but any characters even remotely like Joy ~ never knew one. Not there. But I can think of a few I knew in California who were pretty close.
Have these people never actually visited the south...?
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docile and submissive?!
