If things are so bad in NEPA, why do people stay? (Scranton: property taxes, transplants)

[Chefkey]

Originally Posted by loveinbloom

hmmmmmmmm...what a welcome tone...YOU SIMPLY RESENT THE CHANING DEMOGRAPHICS OF nepa. Many of the businesses that provide liveable wages have long been gone. If your outright nastiness gets out and appears to be relfective norm ,what corprate company would want to relocate here? Corpartions usually send currently employed developmental teams to an area while setting up shop...they come from somewhere else, why would they want to invest in an area that is so hositle to transplants?

Oh wait I get it, as long as you folks can get what YOU want to support YOUR area, it is all fine and dandy. Sounds so inviting...YOUR CITY NEEDS TO LEARN, YOU WANT INVESTORS, CHANGE YOUR MINDSET or things will never change. The current "locals" are not able to support the changes in the 21st century...with out "outsiders" YOUR city will continue to decline and become more and more of a GHETTO without "outsiders" making it that way.

Thank you for saying exactly what Coartist and I have been thinking. Rep to you.

[weluvpa]

Maybe the 3 of you guys could get a NY support group going. The funny thing is that you only want to see and accept the positive view of "outsiders" moving here. Your refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is as much bad as good that comes with "outsiders" moving into the area is in my mind just ignorant for lack of a better word.

This has been a small town struggling with its history for a long time and the change that the poconos is going thru is not what we want here. Sure there are good people that will move here but with the good also comes the bad.

Our police force is sadly understaffed and will be that way for least 6 more years if Mayor Doherty is relected. Do you think that they are ready for the increase of crime that is following the great exodus from NY & NJ.

Its all fun and ice sculptures and parks and lah lah and blah blah but you haven't been here dealing with it like we have. Whether you are from NY, NJ or mars I just can't stand the fact that people feel the need to try and tell us that we should be happy because we live here because you think its great.

Its a hell of lot better then NY or NJ and I know that but as long as there is a exodus to NEPA the crime will follow and continue to get worse because whether or not you want to admit it its following the transplants. Remember this also, NOT EVERYONE MOVING HERE FROM NY & NJ IS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

[Chefkey]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Maybe the 3 of you guys could get a NY support group going. The funny thing is that you only want to see and accept the positive view of "outsiders" moving here. Your refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is as much bad as good that comes with "outsiders" moving into the area is in my mind just ignorant for lack of a better word.

This has been a small town struggling with its history for a long time and the change that the poconos is going thru is not what we want here. Sure there are good people that will move here but with the good also comes the bad.

Our police force is sadly understaffed and will be that way for least 6 more years if Mayor Doherty is relected. Do you think that they are ready for the increase of crime that is following the great exodus from NY & NJ.

Its all fun and ice sculptures and parks and lah lah and blah blah but you haven't been here dealing with it like we have. Whether you are from NY, NJ or mars I just can't stand the fact that people feel the need to try and tell us that we should be happy because we live here because you think its great.

Its a hell of lot better then NY or NJ and I know that but as long as there is a exodus to NEPA the crime will follow and continue to get worse because whether or not you want to admit it its following the transplants. Remember this also, NOT EVERYONE MOVING HERE FROM NY & NJ IS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

What's funny for me is that the majority of crimes I have heard about in the news were usually white males living here all their lives. Like the guy who used a hammer on Salon patrons or the rapist in Kirby Park. The lala land you believe in is never never land as in you never had it here. Why think migrants are gonna make the filth any worse? Power in numbers only means the more good people that come will help to clean up areas and not leave areas ripe for druggies.

The reason druggies have a place to be is all the cheap rundown apartments and vacant buildings. They also would not be migrating here if there wasn't a demand for drugs by people who have lived here all their lives.

If good people keep coming and paying taxes we can lobby the Mayor to keep adding Police. This is something Mayor Leighton continues to do and has plans to bolster the force again in 2008. If Doherty doesn't get the fact that Scranton needs more Police than give him the boot and tell the new guy to add Police or get out.

[CHS89]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Remember this also, NOT EVERYONE MOVING HERE FROM NY & NJ IS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

Not everyone who has been here their entire life is a law abiding citizen, either...

[weluvpa]

I agree but you can't say that there is not increased crime that comes along with residents from other states.

[Chefkey]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I agree but you can't say that there is not increased crime that comes along with residents from other states.

I certainly won't deny that trash is everywhere and some of it is migrating this way. But we can be sure of this much, if we don't keep enticing good law abiding citizens to come to NEPA the ratio of good to bad will start to tip in the wrong direction.

That is why I believe as a new permanent resident of the valley we need to entice as many good people as possible to relocate here. As I said in my last post this influx bringing in tax dollars will help to strengthen the government of the area and help reduce crime through new police. Bad guys and druggies don't want to set up shop in a nice looking well kept crime watch area.

[coartist88]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Maybe the 3 of you guys could get a NY support group going. The funny thing is that you only want to see and accept the positive view of "outsiders" moving here. Your refusal to acknowledge the fact that there is as much bad as good that comes with "outsiders" moving into the area is in my mind just ignorant for lack of a better word.

This has been a small town struggling with its history for a long time and the change that the poconos is going thru is not what we want here. Sure there are good people that will move here but with the good also comes the bad.

Our police force is sadly understaffed and will be that way for least 6 more years if Mayor Doherty is relected. Do you think that they are ready for the increase of crime that is following the great exodus from NY & NJ.

Its all fun and ice sculptures and parks and lah lah and blah blah but you haven't been here dealing with it like we have. Whether you are from NY, NJ or mars I just can't stand the fact that people feel the need to try and tell us that we should be happy because we live here because you think its great.

Its a hell of lot better then NY or NJ and I know that but as long as there is a exodus to NEPA the crime will follow and continue to get worse because whether or not you want to admit it its following the transplants. Remember this also, NOT EVERYONE MOVING HERE FROM NY & NJ IS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

AND REMEMBER THIS NOT EVERYONE MOVING HERE FROM NY,& NJ IS A THUG!
There are plenty of locals to fit that bill.You continue to generalize and group together all transplants, you assume everyone from NY,NJ is a criminal, and you assume you know everything about peoples professions coming this way.The bottom line is if you have the money to buy a home and pay taxes you have a right to live anywhere,just because you were here first doesn't give you more right or entitlement,that means nothing,I really resent you grouping all the transplants together as being criminal,I along with many others came out here,buying a home paying taxes,obeying the law,not that I have to answer to you or anyone else,But you just seem to have a chip on your shoulder and despise outsiders,But I must agree with you on one thing
yes there are bad coming from these areas,do you think I want to see them coming here ,I live here too,the stroudsburg area,with the gangs and meth labs,I know all too well about that, the police in the poconos were not prepared for this,and believe you me I don't want it to happen in Scranton
I do understand what you are saying to a point,Oh and I love it here and think
it's great,and I am not telling you to be happy because I think it is great,I could care less,It is Ice sculptures,parks,Lah,lah,lah, I realize the problem of the bad also coming this way,but again the drug dealers go to places for supply and demand, you make it sound like crime didn't exist in PA before the transplants came out.

[ScranBarre]

Count me in here to defend the incoming NY/NJ transplants. I've been trying to avoid this conversation the past few days hoping that the absence from my ranting (which I realize often comes off as nails screeching across a chalkboard), but I just came back online to the forum to notice that even though I've left the fighting has simply shifted away from me and onto others!

People in NEPA need to stop pining for the "good 'ole days." The days of corporate behemoths like Techneglas providing very high wages to folks without any business skills or formal education are over as NAFTA has heralded a new era in America in which the American worker must now make himself or herself more competitive than EVER to sell themselves to a dwindling pool of quality employers. The days of hopping a trolley from Dunmore to Downtown Scranton, the Vaudeville Capital of America, are long gone as urban sprawl has become widely-embraced in our region (for better or for worse). The days of shopping at an independent book store like the Tudor, buying gourmet dog treats at independent dog bakeries like Poochie, buying fishing supplies at places like Ray's Bait & Tackle, etc. are becoming extinct as these new suburbanites are deciding through consumer sovereignty that they'd rather hop in their SUVs to park at a big-box store than to keep little 'ole ma and pa at the corner store in business, leading to the death of independent merchants. The days of seeing deer roaming Montage Mountain are long past; now the nuevo riche of Glenmaura scream "Ahhhh!!! Kill it! Kill it!" if they see even a squirrel run through their lavishly-landscaped backyards, forgetting completely that the region's massive land consumption since 1980 has created far fewer and fewer natural habitats.

Changes are occurring, and they are now occurring quite rapidly; Scranton/Wilkes-Barre's population is now growing again for the first time in many decades. Even long-range Census projections hadn't forecasted the Poconos to start hemmoraging their transplants into Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties for many more years. The BosWash Corridor has already engulfed the formerly independent Lehigh Valley and the once-alluring Pocono Mountains, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is the next logical region to be engulfed. We can't just put up a giant brick wall that says "Go home, transplants!" We can either accept that our region's population is going to start growing exponentially and plan ahead for it in terms of building new schools (i.e. North Pocono), improving our infrastructure (i.e. widening of I-81), drawing up urban growth boundaries to promote our existing neighborhoods in our boroughs and cities over our outlying suburban townships, etc. or we can continue to whine and bicker, which .

I, for one, would LOVE to have more people move to Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties, and I'm very, very grateful that folks like coartist88, Chefkey, Karnak (wherever he might now be), loveinbloom, etc. are ignoring all of the horror stories they've likely heard about this region being a depressed dump and are instead optimistic about its potentially vibrant future. We need to take these people and multiply their numbers by 1,000, not shoo them away. These are the same people who have the financial resources available to them to purchase homes in our area and update them with new vinyl siding, roofing, landscaping, etc. (boosting values of adjacent properties), may decide to open downtown business ventures, wish to become politically active, etc. Why bring down those who want to see this area thrive? I don't view them as threats. On the contrary I was happy to see that a gay couple from Manhattan had purchased the old mansion on the NW corner of Jefferson & Mulberry in the Electric City and are now renovating it into a showplace. I was happy to hear that a group of investors from New York City is opening a new night club in Downtown Scranton. Not all of the transplants are bringing "trouble" with them; many are just seeking a better quality-of-life than to which they are accustomed.

I never saw a city with such an identity crisis as Scranton. Its residents scream out for progress, help, change, prosperity, etc., yet when the prospect of it finally DOES come onto the radar, the residents en masse stave it off (hence all of the anti-University of Scranton, anti-downtown, anti-business, and anti-"creative class" ranting at the council podium, even though re-establishing Scranton as a white-collar center for the region is a GREAT first step on revitalizing it, as has been experienced in many other similarly-sized cities). People want lower taxes. Lowering taxes requires increasing the tax base. Increasing the tax base requires hyping up the city's image. Hyping up the city's image requires shutting up the "Doomers", naysayers, Pilcheskys, etc. Yes, the city is mired in political problems. However, what "good" does it do to the city's overall prospects of attracting new residents if they're scared off en masse to the suburbs by all of the negativity and whining? I just don't understand it, Dan. People were widely-outspoken about the Connors Administration as well, and they WILL be just as widely-outspoken about Scranton's future mayor (be it Spindler, Evans, Franus, or whomever) as they were about Doherty. You people are ALWAYS bitter about your government---at least much more than any other municipality in the region. Mayor Leighton takes MUCH less heat from the general public than Mayor Doherty does from you all, yet his city's violent crime rate is out-of-control in relation to Scranton's, his city's residential neighborhoods (save for a few) are distressed-looking in relation to Scranton's largely well-kept residential neighborhoods, etc. The people in Wilkes-Barre even bitched less about the Valentine's Day Blizzard than you all did. Nobody wants to move to a city where all the people do is *****, *****, *****. They want to move to a city where it looks as if a recovery is imminent so they'll enjoy appreciating home values, a revitalizing downtown area to walk to and patronize, and an overall improving quality-of-life for their families.

For every one "booster" in this area there are two VERY vocal detractors, hence negating ANY potential progress that could be made. The population will grow in the long-term regardless of the area's "image" because it still has the dirt cheap housing, cheap property taxes, large lot sizes, low crime, good schools, etc. that the NJ/NYC transplants lust over and are having an incredibly difficult time securing, but they'll be less inclined to promote the area to others, invest further in the area, etc. if they perceive this sense of hopelessness and despair that is so prevalent everywhere I and everyone else my age turns. I'm a future investor in the city---a city where I hope to purchase and renovate a home in, pay taxes in, open a downtown business in, serve in a neighborhood association in, attend graduate school in, raise children in, serve on a PTA in, etc. I become irked at the prospect that it could all go to waste if a city teetering between rebirth and collapse opts for the latter because the residents simply fear change.

[loveinbloom]

Originally Posted by Chefkey

Thank you for saying exactly what Coartist and I have been thinking. Rep to you.

Thanks for the kudos... I am simply a mom, and am concerned that my 7 year old will be picked on because children do absorb and over hear what the parents do and say!

Once again, my husband was raised here, my in-laws clan dates back multiple generations, my husband was the ONLY one to have a career in the military.
It is so sad that his wife feels the need to defend her self and by extension her child because of where they were both born. I must say while living in Europe, I was embraced and in my own country I seem to be viewed as a leaper.
"...Maybe the 3 of you guys could get a NY support group going..." I think the 3 of us are the secure ones and not the ones that need a support group...

[weluvpa]

Well you know the first I do tell my son every morning before school is to make sure that he does pick on any kids from out of town. After he is done taking their school money he usually eats their lunch then pushes them to the ground.

Don'y worry though, because he only does it to the kids from northern New Jersey.

Paul I'm only reading the first, middle and last sentences if that helps bud.