The new Political/off topic sticky chat thread (Industry: lenders, bankrupt)

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

If you want our military modeled after that of the Israelis, that shocks me.

We need to care what other nations think if we want to remain a super power in the world. No one ever trusts or wants to help hypocrites.

We haven't cared what the world thought of our actions ever...If we as a nation did we might never have had the revolutionary war....Our military and weapons arsenal will assure that we are and will always be a superpower.

What shocks you about the Israeli military? The IDF is on call and ready at a moments notice anywhere at anytime.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

We haven't cared what the world thought of our actions ever...

Not true.

The G.W. Bush Administration certainly embraced unilateralist foreign policy for its military and related actions (indeed, a particularly arrogant and illegal version, too), but don't assume that had always been or continues to be this nation's foreign policy. In fact, our foreign policy is now and has overwhelmingly been through consensus, international agreements, and so forth.

[Retired Law 08]

Originally Posted by The Commish

I think people from a broad range of experiences and circumstances can offer valuable insight into this world. It's only those close-minded individuals whose arguments lack rigor and support who denigrate other people based on immutable qualities like age. Age, for what it's worth, isn't an automatic ticket to wisdom. I know that must come as a shock to those who think they are entitled to be listened to and have their opinions respected. But no one is entitled to respect for any reason; respect is earned.

About the worst thing anyone can do is to wall themselves off and only listen to people of similar experiences. That's living in a bubble. We all do it to some extent in our personal and professional lives. For instance, I'm finding it hard to name a single blue-collar friend, and yes, it feels more than a little anthropological observing them in the world. I could say, "who cares what they think?" (And indeed, I think we could all agree that I'd be right to think that for more than a few knuckleheads). But that wouldn't be right.



Best.

Response.

Ever.

I agree respect has to be earned...reguardless of age..but by the same token not all the answers to lifes problems come from books and articles and such...
In my opinion there is no substitute for real life experience...so agree to disagree....
QUOTE.....
And learn to debate FACTS instead of waving your American icons all over the internet as if that means something.

This is funny..someone wants me to debate..but meanwhile 2 of the posts addressed to me had to be edited for bad language..thats real mature..
there are no debates here..just arguments..a total turn off....no patience
for non-sense..and the flag does mean something to me..that's all that matters.....

Oh and by the way...since you like patriotic symbols and sayings so much...by looking at
your saying on top..."jingoistic catchphrase"...for all you do..this is for you...
"enjoy"
http://bestsmileys.com/usa1/3.gif (broken link)


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http://bestsmileys.com/usa2/2.gif (broken link)

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[NYRangers 2008]

You tell 'em John. I guess they aren't that patriotic if they have a problem with your icons. It's funny how liberals tell us to be open minded and respect others, yet when they don't agree with something we have to say, they attack viciously and tell us how wrong we are. Go figure.

[AbbeysMom]

I love the icons, what I hate is the turn that this thread has taken. To beat someone up over his love for his country, it's wrong. So you don't love this country and what it stands for in the same way, so what. Differences make this world unique, I love my country and I appreciate that John shows his love for his country also.

I can't imagine the sight of the American Flag causing such angst on this message board which by the way was a wonderful place to visit at one time. Something went terribly wrong here. We are all different, some believe in God like me, some do not they have other beliefs, do I hate them for it, No I don't, I try to understand them. We are all here to learn from one and other. Perhaps instead of beating up John for he love of country and his patriotic icons ... you should try and understand how this love was instilled in him.

They are opinions people we all have them. We all believe that our way is the right way, it does not mean that we should be at each others throats.

Retired law was once a moderator keeping the peace of this board, his job was not easy yet he did it well. He earned my respect and he shall keep that respect.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by Retired Law 08

I agree respect has to be earned...reguardless of age..but by the same token not all the answers to lifes problems come from books and articles and such...
In my opinion there is no substitute for real life experience...so agree to disagree...

Well, my point was that people from a broad range of experiences and circumstances can offer valuable input in the world. My point wasn't that book smarts are more important than life experience. That was a misreading of my post. People at all stages of life and in various circumstances have something to bring to the table of ideas. I tend to think those who disagree with that basic point are closed-minded, fairly ignorant, and arrogant.

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

You tell 'em John. I guess they aren't that patriotic if they have a problem with your icons. It's funny how liberals tell us to be open minded and respect others, yet when they don't agree with something we have to say, they attack viciously and tell us how wrong we are. Go figure.

I believe the "problem" with Retired Law's icons is two-prong: (1) from Magritte's perspective he seems to use flag-waving as a substitute for reasoning. I agree. And (2), from my perspective (which Retired Law, not me, brought up) was that excessive patriotism often lends itself to jingoism. Jingoism certainly isn't beyond reproach, and I think it's arrogant to believe otherwise.

Also, I haven't read the thread that carefully, but I don't think anyone here has been "vicious." And I don't think it's accurate to confuse principled, strong-willed, forceful arguments with "viciousness" or that those type of arguments somehow contradict being liberal. Liberals do stand for certain principles after all. We aren't contradicting anything to defend those principles.

*Okay, after reading the thread, some of those posts are a little too personal and argumentative, but that includes go phillies and Retired Law, too.

[Retired Law 08]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Well, my point was that people from a broad range of experiences and circumstances can offer valuable input in the world. My point wasn't that book smarts are more important than life experience. That was a misreading of my post. People at all stages of life and in various circumstances have something to bring to the table of ideas. I tend to think those who disagree with that basic point are closed-minded, fairly ignorant, and arrogant.



I believe the "problem" with Retired Law's icons is two-prong: (1) from Magritte's perspective he seems to use flag-waving as a substitute for reasoning. I agree. And (2), from my perspective (which Retired Law, not me, brought up) was that excessive patriotism often lends itself to jingoism. Jingoism certainly isn't beyond reproach, and I think it's arrogant to believe otherwise.

Also, I haven't read the thread that carefully, but I don't think anyone here has been "vicious." And I don't think it's accurate to confuse principled, strong-willed, forceful arguments with "viciousness" or that those type of arguments somehow contradict being liberal. Liberals do stand for certain principles after all. We aren't contradicting anything to defend those principles.

*Okay, after reading the thread, some of those posts are a little too personal and argumentative, but that includes go phillies and Retired Law, too.

I understand what you are saying....

The Icons are displayed for pride...not being arrogant....

Also my reply to that poster was very civil considering the way I was being addressed....like I said they had to be edited out...not too cool...
A good debate is one thing I agree...with facts and such...but I will not argue with someone on a message board...doesn't make sense..

[NYRangers 2008]

Is anybody as upset with Obama as I am? I get more and more irate with this guy everyday. This whole GM bailout fiasco is getting unbelievable. The whole idea of the bailout was to not let these companies go bankrupt, which I was strongly against, I said let them go bankrupt. Now, both GM and Chrysler are bankrupt and the government is controlling them. Obama is leading this country down a dangerous socialist path the likes we have never seen before. It's pretty sad when the government has control of a private business. Doesn't anyone see anything wrong with this? I do. Our hard earned tax dollars are going to foot the bill for this and our taxes are going to go up. He's screwing over the middle class. This is the "change" everyone wanted, I hope all the people who voted for him are happy. Not only is he messing up domestically, his foreign policy is not working either, he's letting North Korea do whatever they want to. Gas prices have gone up 20 percent in May. Everyone was complaining when Bush was in office about the skyrocketing gas prices because he was tied to big oil, what's the excuse now under Obama? I'm just sickened by his Presidency and embarrassed that he was ever elected to the highest office in this country. I knew he didn't have the experience or knowledge to run this country right. Doesn't he realize socialism hasn't worked anywhere else, why does he think it will work here and now? This isn't about liberal or conservative or Republican or Democrat, it's about what's right for the USA and Obama is so wrong. I hope people will start to wake up and realize this and what he is doing to this country right under our noses. Broken promises and billions of dollars wasted.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

I hope all the people who voted for him are happy.

We are.

Latest Polls:

Obama Administration: Right Direction: 63%
Obama: Job Ratings: 62%
Obama: Favorability Ratings: 67%

[NYRangers 2008]

I guess you want this country to turn into a socialist state. I do not. Bailing out companies and banks for billion of dollars is un-American. How could you be happy and support this? Our tax dollars going to a corporation with a bad business model.