View Poll Results: Do You Support Bishop Martino's Political Stances?
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02-13-2009, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScranBarre
Sigh. Getting back to my particular sub-topic, it looks as if the folks in NYC aren't even as "inclusive" as many like to proclaim they are either.
Jose Oswaldo Sucuzhanay, a 31-year-old real estate agent, was walking arm in arm with his brother in Brooklyn in December when he was beaten to death in an apparent hate crime by assailants who shouted anti-Hispanic and anti-gay slurs.
What a shame. What would possess a group of morons to beat to death a man because they presumed he was gay and/or Hispanic? We need TOUGHER hate crime laws in this country! Hopefully President Obama will deliver that!
What I find appalling is that this crime was committed by a gang of black men. I thought they were the ones that wanted everyone to be equal and included and to end racism? This is the reason why I stay far away from urban areas. The presence of gangs that will attack just for the thrill of it because they have nothing else to do is a great motivator for many people to move out of cities, especially NYC.
I'm sure the Savior will end all hate crimes. It's on his to-do list, as soon as he finds a few more tax evaders to round out his cabinet, finishes destroying what's left of the economy and get done setting our country up for the next terrorist attack. Remember, it's change you can believe in!
02-13-2009, 08:12 AM
Location: NE PA
7,931 posts, read
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Reputation: 4425
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
What I find appalling is that this crime was committed by a gang of black men. I thought they were the ones that wanted everyone to be equal and included and to end racism? This is the reason why I stay far away from urban areas. The presence of gangs that will attack just for the thrill of it because they have nothing else to do is a great motivator for many people to move out of cities, especially NYC.
The problem is that I'll bet they don't consider this particular crime a hate crime, because the attackers are black. Now, if the attackers were white, it absolutely would be called a hate crime. Isn't political correctness great?
02-13-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
go phillies
The problem is that I'll bet they don't consider this particular crime a hate crime, because the attackers are black. Now, if the attackers were white, it absolutely would be called a hate crime. Isn't political correctness great?
No, PC is just plain ridiculous most of the time. Sometimes my husband and I have to turn off the TV because the absurdity of some of the reporting causes us to feel angry for much of the day. Much better to just not watch.
02-13-2009, 08:53 AM
703 posts, read
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Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by
go phillies
The problem is that I'll bet they don't consider this particular crime a hate crime, because the attackers are black. Now, if the attackers were white, it absolutely would be called a hate crime. Isn't political correctness great?
Incorrect.
It's not a hate crime no matter who did the attacking
because sexual orientation isn't included in hate crime laws . "Political correctness" (whatever that means) isn't good, but certainly reactionary opinions that are ignorant of the law aren't good either.
Now you do allude to what I think is a good point. Hate crimes protect everyone against crimes committed because of a person's
race (among other things). Whether prosecutors unequally apply the law there is a really good question, and it would be a shame if that were true.
02-13-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Commish
Incorrect.because sexual orientation isn't included in hate crime laws . "Political correctness" (whatever that means) isn't good, but certainly reactionary opinions that are ignorant of the law aren't good either.race (among other things). Whether prosecutors unequally apply the law there is a really good question, and it would be a shame if that were true.
If sexual orientation was to be included in a definition of a "hate crime", then pretty much EVERY crime could also be classified as a "hate" crime. Rape technically is a hate crime against women, child abuse is a hate crime against children, the list goes on and on. There are many reasons why people hate another person enough to hurt or murder them, ranging from a nagging wife, a whining baby, a cheating husband or a noisy neighbor. The whole "hate crime" laws are just a PC way of making racial crimes more special and newsworthy than other crimes, because the media has made it job #1 to make sure that all Americans feel guilty about the "huge epidemic of racism" in this country. As far as I'm concerned, hate is hate, murder is murder. If a person dies because someone hated them enough to murder them and it is proven beyond a doubt, the punishment should be the same for all.
02-13-2009, 09:36 AM
Location: Lake Ariel
936 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
I'm sure the Savior will end all hate crimes. It's on his to-do list, as soon as he finds a few more tax evaders to round out his cabinet, finishes destroying what's left of the economy and get done setting our country up for the next terrorist attack. Remember, it's change you can believe in!
Wow you are very optimistic
. I hope all of the doubters are proven wrong. Geez President Obama didnt put us in this mess.
02-13-2009, 09:45 AM
2,473 posts, read
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Reputation: 1204
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
I'm sure the Savior will end all hate crimes. It's on his to-do list, as soon as he finds a few more tax evaders to round out his cabinet, finishes destroying what's left of the economy and get done setting our country up for the next terrorist attack. Remember, it's change you can believe in!
I do
SO love a positive outlook!!
(Jungle George searches for that half glass of water....
)
Oh wait....I think I read that's akin to pipe dreaming.....
Never mind....
02-13-2009, 10:07 AM
703 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
If sexual orientation was to be included in a definition of a "hate crime", then pretty much EVERY crime could also be classified as a "hate" crime. Rape technically is a hate crime against women, child abuse is a hate crime against children, the list goes on and on. There are many reasons why people hate another person enough to hurt or murder them, ranging from a nagging wife, a whining baby, a cheating husband or a noisy neighbor.
I haven't studied hate crimes in any great detail, so I can't tell you what the elements are for proving a hate crimes charge. And I can't tell you what the arguments are all that precisely. But it's not accurate to say that making sexual orientation a hate crime class would mean that every crime like rape is also a hate crime. Prosecutors would have to prove some "
because of sexual orientation" type requirement, and it's not automatic at all that someone who rapes a woman did it because she was a straight woman in the same sense that someone who pours bleach over a black man did it because he was black.
It's a bit of a difficult thing to prove, actually!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
The whole "hate crime" laws are just a PC way of making racial crimes more special and newsworthy than other crimes, because the media has made it job #1 to make sure that all Americans feel guilty about the "huge epidemic of racism" in this country.
I agree that we highlight certain crimes committed with certain motives as "hate crimes" because we as a society feel crimes of that nature deserve extra condemnation. I think reasonable people can disagree over the merits of doing this. I happen to agree that we should.
Remember, hate crime laws protect you, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greentown
As far as I'm concerned, hate is hate, murder is murder. If a person dies because someone hated them enough to murder them and it is proven beyond a doubt, the punishment should be the same for all.
You know, this is really complicated. I've studied criminal law in great detail and it's not all that clear that what you posted above is the right thing to do in all cases. Let me explain:
There are many kinds of "murder:"
murder 1,
murder 2,
depraved heart/extreme indifference murder
involuntary manslaughter,
voluntary manslaughter,
negligent homicide,
felony murder
People murder for different reasons (sometimes they don't mean to at all), in different contexts, and things like that. I agree with you that anyone who
intentionally murders anyone else deserves the same penalty. But murder isn't always intentionally committed. Especially in this case, it remains to be seen whether those gang members intentionally murdered the gay guy, or they just intended to severely beat him and he died. If the prosecutor can't prove they intentionally murdered him, then their prison sentence will be a lot lighter; probably less than life in prison without the possibility of parole. A hate crime law in this context would increase the penalty.
02-13-2009, 10:36 AM
996 posts, read
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"You know, this is really complicated. I've studied criminal law in great detail and it's not all that clear that what you posted above is the right thing to do in all cases. Let me explain:
There are many kinds of "murder:"
murder 1,
murder 2,
depraved heart/extreme indifference murder
involuntary manslaughter,
voluntary manslaughter,
negligent homicide,
felony murder
People murder for different reasons (sometimes they don't mean to at all), in different contexts, and things like that. I agree with you that anyone who
intentionally murders anyone else deserves the same penalty. But murder isn't always intentionally committed. Especially in this case, it remains to be seen whether those gang members intentionally murdered the gay guy, or they just intended to severely beat him and he died. If the prosecutor can't prove they intentionally murdered him, then their prison sentence will be a lot lighter; probably less than life in prison without the possibility of parole. A hate crime law in this context would increase the penalty."
Yes, thanks, I'm well aware that there are stages of penalty for murder (I watch Law and Order, too). The point is, by increasing that penalty because a "hate crime" law is in place, the court would be placing more value on the life of that person than on the lives of other people. That is the part that I don't agree with. I guess all of us straight, white people would be easy targets since we aren't worth as much.
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with home equity loan (%)
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People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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. I hope all of the doubters are proven wrong. Geez President Obama didnt put us in this mess.
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