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While I agree with you with the fact that planning is terrible, I don't think the "build first, plan later" mindset is unique to NoVA.
It certainly isn't. We've lived all over and faced the same problems all over. An area can't really ban growth and tell businesses and developers to wait until they've built more roads before they expand their businesses. Some folks want the government to control everything, who builds what where and when they build it. Most folks don't want that kind of government control. Governments are slow, it takes them a long time to respond to growth in an area. The Washington area is no exception. It happens in every city across America where there is job growth. I know it was true in Texas around the cities of Dallas and Houston. Terrible traffic!
It sounds like that young man didn't fit in well in NOVA. That happens. Millions of others seem to fit in just fine. If they didn't, they would still be pouring into NOVA. The area has decent weather, good schools, nice neighborhoods to raise families, and many well paying jobs. Making friends does not seem to be a problem for most people, whether young single people, or families, or older people. With so many things to do, it would be hard not to find things you enjoy in northern Virginia, with like minded people. Some people can't be happy no matter where they are. It's not the area, it's them. As they say "no matter where you go, there YOU are"!
For me it's not that I see nothing wrong here. There are a lot of nice things about the area that outweight the not-so-nice things.
A quick comparisons with other big cities in the US
Bay Area: too expensive
Seattle: too much rain
LA: too much superficial things
NYC: too crowd and too expensive
Boston: too cold
Chicago: too damn cold
I think NOVA is just about right.
We turned down a job in Seattle when we found it rains there for 9 months a year. Gray with drizzle, for weeks on end. You're right, Chicago is too cold and Boston also. Boston also has terrible traffic problems and people driving like maniacs! They're crazy wild up there! Pittsburgh was too run down, with too much trash, and it's gray and overcast much of the year. Too depressing! And not a lot of job opportunities. Although we liked some neighborhoods there, the city is a mess and the schools are not good.
New York is out for a family, much too expensive and private schools are costly.
We liked Texas with their low taxes and much less expensive housing, but jobs didn't pay as well and the traffic problems were epic on some days. Just about everywhere has pluses and minuses but Virginia offers a lot of options for jobs, housing, schools, and outdoor pursuits. We are looking forward to seeing what Spring and the Cherry Blossoms have to offer in the beautiful city of Washington DC!
Like JEB77 mentioned, I had "Metro areas" on my mind, not just specific cities.
I think in US, SF Bay area will win hands down if it's not so expensive and Seattle might even be better than the Bay area if it doesn't rain or get cloudy that much!
Agree! We love Seattle, for the two months in the summer when it's not raining. It's a terrific city. SF is beautiful, but we would miss having seasons, and the taxes in CA are killers. The taxes make CA far too expensive for a family and for a small business.
I believe the annual rainfall in Seattle is slightly less than that here in NoVA. However, as others pointed out, for much of the late fall, winter and early spring, there is a persistent low ceiling cloud cover over much of Seattle with frequent slight drizzles and constant dampness. It's mold city over there. On a positive side, the relative warmth and humidity during the winter makes it very pleasant in terms of personal comfort and the summers can be absolutely glorious with 70 degree days, low humidity, slight breeze and constant sunny weather. A substantial chunk of Seattleites own boats for a reason. Also when things do get a bit blue in the winter, Hawaii is a quick hop away on Hawaii Air.
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Originally Posted by airjay75
Well, when people compare NoVA to another large city, I think they are often referring to that city's metropolitan area and making general comparisons to the suburban areas that surround those metro areas. For example, when someone on here compares an aspect of NoVA to say, New York or San Franciso, I highly doubt they are referring only to San Franciso county or the 5 boroughs of New York City. They are likely using their reference to NY or SF as a shortcut for the entire metro area, including Silicon Valley, Marin County, the East Bay, etc. in SF, and Long Island, NJ, Westchester, Connecticut, etc. in NY. It seems kind of silly to get into that much specificity when generally comparing NoVA to other metro areas.
Yes, yes, yes. I wish I could rep you again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryNThyme
It certainly isn't. We've lived all over and faced the same problems all over. An area can't really ban growth and tell businesses and developers to wait until they've built more roads before they expand their businesses. Some folks want the government to control everything, who builds what where and when they build it. Most folks don't want that kind of government control. Governments are slow, it takes them a long time to respond to growth in an area. The Washington area is no exception. It happens in every city across America where there is job growth. I know it was true in Texas around the cities of Dallas and Houston. Terrible traffic!
Indeed. Infrastructure almost always lags growth for a reason. I know lots of places in the Rust Belt where the oversized infrastructure is rusting away due to population decline. Housing is really low cost in these places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryNThyme
Pittsburgh was too run down, with too much trash, and it's gray and overcast much of the year. Too depressing! And not a lot of job opportunities. Although we liked some neighborhoods there, the city is a mess and the schools are not good.
I liked Pittsburgh quite a bit when I did graduate work there. It was low cost, for sure. *I* personally would not bring up my family for a number of reasons including 1) high Gini coefficient, meaning the gap between the rich and the poor is high, which contributes to social disharmony and significant segregation, 2) relatively parochial population (I personally witnessed a number of racial incidents), 3) low degree of average education and education quality and 4) relative distance from other cities and places of interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryNThyme
Agree! We love Seattle, for the two months in the summer when it's not raining. It's a terrific city.
Absolutely. However, the government there is increasingly becoming incompetent due to the monopolistic nature of one party rule. Also, it is becoming more and more like San Francisco (middle class flight, increasing number of homeless and the playground for the young and the rich, aggressive political correctness and intolerance for dissent, etc.).
You know what's beginning to annoy me about NoVA? People who didn't make it in NoVA or just didn't like it for a variety of reasons who then move somewhere else and constantly let us know how horrible NoVA was to them. For the life of me, I don't understand why people can't vote with their feet, go somewhere else that makes them happy and just forget about how unpleasant NoVA was for them. And it's not about constructive criticism is either, because these critiques are invariably filled with emotional, vitriolic and vague/highly generalized and personalized remarks.
honestly my main gripe with nova is peoples attitudes. most people who live here go to schools in va, like mason, va tech,uva. they dont really need to go far for good universities and tend to stay in state and return once they are done. so all those high school clicks keep on living post college to an extent and then they feel they are better than you because they are congressional staffers earning 20-25k a year.
people here i honestly feel are more fake than those i found in san diego, LA and san fran. imaybe i got lucky but i walked into a place out in the west and got treated a lot better than here.
I'm a VCU alum. Most of the people I went to school with are from NOVA; difference is most stay in Richmond instead of going back. The draw of going to a school like Tech, UVA, VCU, etc. is that you're getting away from your parents.
If you are okay with living in any of Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, etc., you can probably do quite well. There's plenty to do in all those places.
But, when your job runs out, you're ready to move on, or a new manager comes in that's a complete jerk ... you'll more than likely either have to start working something under your capability or move to another city of comparable size.
This might work for a single guy, or a family where only one person works (and the spouse/kids are fine with moving). Not so well for a dual-income family.
I am here because (1) there's plenty of IT jobs in the 267 and 270 corridors (and Leesburg is actually better positioned for a commute among either than most places in Loudoun) and (2) my family is in Winchester/Front Royal -- which are actually options for me (I would say having family/support networks out there make it much more tenable for me than for someone completely outside the area.)
IMO, Winchester/Reston isn't a terrible commute if coming home gives you peace of mind.
Do you think the weather in Newton or Evanston is a lot different from Boston or Chicago? Or that Scarsdale or Summit has a lot cheaper cost of living than NYC?
I don't really see the point.
I assume the other poster had metro areas, not individual cities, in mind in any event. And I've always understood the "Bay Area" to refer to SF and its environs, and not just to SF.
To be honest, I do not know if the weather is that different in Newton or Evanston or Boston and Chicago. Actually I believe it is irrelevant to the statement. My point in that post was that yes, generally speaking, we may agree that the comparison of NoVA to a major U.S. city is not a comparison to that specific city, but to the suburban areas outside of that city.
For example, let's compare NoVA to the NYC-area which would mean NoVA compared to North Jersey-Southern Connecticut, right? Can we make the comparison and if so, what is it we like/dislike/prefer?
HokieMatt gave his/her list likes/dislike/prefer between several of those areas whether it involved climate, cost, etc. or both.
In addition, can we compare these areas if we have NOT lived in them? Is visiting an area the same as living in it? I know that many people visited NoVA and became excited by the thought of living here, but once they moved here, they found that the day-to-day experience of living in NoVA was not their cup of tea after all.[/quote]
Well, when people compare NoVA to another large city, I think they are often referring to that city's metropolitan area and making general comparisons to the suburban areas that surround those metro areas. . . . It seems kind of silly to get into that much specificity when generally comparing NoVA to other metro areas.
No, I do not believe it's silly when mentioned in this specific forum. The reason I say this is because there have been several threads/topics of discussion about NoVA and Washington, DC. and the comparisons between them. I am sure there are some outlying areas that can be compared to the major city next to it. And some that can be seen as an extension of that major city. But as a whole, IMO, I do not see NoVA to be very much like Washington, DC.
My point in that post was that yes, generally speaking, we may agree that the comparison of NoVA to a major U.S. city is not a comparison to that specific city, but to the suburban areas outside of that city.
For example, let's compare NoVA to the NYC-area which would mean NoVA compared to North Jersey-Southern Connecticut, right? Can we make the comparison and if so, what is it we like/dislike/prefer?
In that case, we are in agreement. But I think - and HokieMatt has subsequently confirmed - that he was using "NYC," as many of us understood, to refer to the New York metropolitan area, not the five boroughs. It's easier to type "NYC" than New Jersey/Long Island/Westchester/Southern Connecticut.
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Originally Posted by South Jersey Styx
In addition, can we compare these areas if we have NOT lived in them? Is visiting an area the same as living in it? I know that many people visited NoVA and became excited by the thought of living here, but once they moved here, they found that the day-to-day experience of living in NoVA was not their cup of tea after all.
I'd think that would depend on what features of an area you're comparing. I've never lived full-time near Chicago, but I've spent enough time in "Chicagoland" between September and March to know that it's just too cold for me/Mrs. JEB. But I'd certainly agree there are other aspects of an area's quality of life that can't be assessed so easily - i.e., people who initially have a negative reaction toward suburban strip malls often reassess that reaction after they've discovered some of the interesting family-owned businesses in some of those malls; people who think an area is "too crowded" for them to be happy may reconsider after they discover how good the public transportation is, etc.
In that case, we are in agreement. But I think - and HokieMatt has subsequently confirmed - that he was using "NYC," as many of us understood, to refer to the New York metropolitan area, not the five boroughs. It's easier to type "NYC" than New Jersey/Long Island/Westchester/Southern Connecticut.
Yes.
Quote:
I'd think that would depend on what features of an area you're comparing. I've never lived full-time near Chicago, but I've spent enough time in "Chicagoland" between September and March to know that it's just too cold for me/Mrs. JEB. But I'd certainly agree there are other aspects of an area's quality of life that can't be assessed so easily - i.e., people who initially have a negative reaction toward suburban strip malls often reassess that reaction after they've discovered some of the interesting family-owned businesses in some of those malls; people who think an area is "too crowded" for them to be happy may reconsider after they discover how good the public transportation is, etc.
Yes, I have been a visitor to all of HokieMatt's list of cities, but would I prefer to live there over NoVA/VA? Aside from the necessity (like I really need a job in that specific city). I, too could make a list of likes/dislikes, which would also include climate, cost of living, as well as food, museum/arts, nature/outdoorsy stuff, amenities, sense of community, etc.
I think the biggest thing for me would not be in my list above but the vicinity to my family and closest friends (which is this area).
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