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I think people can be a little bit rough on some of those with legitimate complaints, but let me give you a little bit of a native's perspective on this situation.
It is hard to find people in this area that actually grew up in this area... we have been flooded with economic refugees from Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, California, and any other state with a down economy. Anybody is welcome to move to VA and give it a try, but let me tell you this - it is extremely annoying to have Michiganders or Californians or Ohioans constantly complaining about how Virginia is different from their home and how things were better in x.
In many respects, many of the problems Virginia faces that people complain about here are a direct result of them moving here (along with the thousands of others).
High home prices? High demand caused by large population influx.
Bad traffic? Lots of new cars caused by population influx.
Poor snow removal? How about waiting a few years to see an average VA winter before you judge it on one exceptional season.
There are many ways you can post a complaint. Many here seem to prefer the angry vent. Most want to pin it on "Virginia", be it the government, the people, the land, what have you. But the fact is, if you live in Northern Virginia, you are part of the problem. You are taking up space on the road. You are demanding lower taxes (and hence, lower level of services such as snow removal). Lots of people will be willing to join into a gripe fest, because there surely is a lot to complain about.
But if you:
- do not take a conciliatory tone in your post
- do not accept any responsibility in your post
- fail to project an inquisitive tone to a question that rather comes off as a masked insult
- lash out (intentionally or not) at residents for their apparent failure in the governance of this state in which you see fit
expect a bristly response. You don't have to love NoVA, most of us don't. But you need to be judicious in your criticism - we know we're an overbuilt suburb, so is most of the country. Don't attack one place for a widespread problem.
You and I moved from different parts of the USA to NOVA around the same time and have had two totally different experiences. This area has some problems with it, no doubt (you and I both agree that reston parkway and n. shore need more streetlights!). But you act like "woe is me" when you call out the general population as being self important and over-privileged and then get on your soapbox when people attack your perspective with similar insults you just flung at them. It's the epitome of hypocrisy.
What do I get for expressing my viewpoints on the above issue? I get slammed. Why do I get slammed? My own personal belief is that if more and more people start second-guessing their decisions to move to NoVA before they come here based upon observations by people such as myself, then the market of prospective home-buyers will decrease, diminishing property values (which will put more people here who bought into the "bubble" upside-down and lead to higher tax rates to offset the lower values). I'm sorry, but I'm not sugar-coating the way I truly feel about certain issues just for the sake of boosting a housing market that is still too expensive for the middle-class.
Very highly doubtful that city-data.com and the numbers of prospective people moving here that read it - that would reconsider because of negative stuff posted here, would have ANY impact on housing prices. The sheer number of houses sold in the area - means what? Maybe a small blip on the radar of a few less houses bought because someone read some negative stuff?
The hypothesis that people are promoting Nova on this forum to boost prices is equally faulty and again any influence this forum has on housing prices is negligible. It would take hundreds of prospective house buyers to abandon the Nova market for any kind of influence on the house prices.
- do not take a conciliatory tone in your post
- do not accept any responsibility in your post
- fail to project an inquisitive tone to a question that rather comes off as a masked insult
- lash out (intentionally or not) at residents for their apparent failure in the governance of this state in which you see fit
expect a bristly response. You don't have to love NoVA, most of us don't. But you need to be judicious in your criticism - we know we're an overbuilt suburb, so is most of the country. Don't attack one place for a widespread problem.
I think people can be a little bit rough on some of those with legitimate complaints, but let me give you a little bit of a native's perspective on this situation.
It is hard to find people in this area that actually grew up in this area... we have been flooded with economic refugees from Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, California, and any other state with a down economy. Anybody is welcome to move to VA and give it a try, but let me tell you this - it is extremely annoying to have Michiganders or Californians or Ohioans constantly complaining about how Virginia is different from their home and how things were better in x.
In many respects, many of the problems Virginia faces that people complain about here are a direct result of them moving here (along with the thousands of others).
High home prices? High demand caused by large population influx.
Bad traffic? Lots of new cars caused by population influx.
Poor snow removal? How about waiting a few years to see an average VA winter before you judge it on one exceptional season.
There are many ways you can post a complaint. Many here seem to prefer the angry vent. Most want to pin it on "Virginia", be it the government, the people, the land, what have you. But the fact is, if you live in Northern Virginia, you are part of the problem. You are taking up space on the road. You are demanding lower taxes (and hence, lower level of services such as snow removal). Lots of people will be willing to join into a gripe fest, because there surely is a lot to complain about.
But if you:
- do not take a conciliatory tone in your post
- do not accept any responsibility in your post
- fail to project an inquisitive tone to a question that rather comes off as a masked insult
- lash out (intentionally or not) at residents for their apparent failure in the governance of this state in which you see fit
expect a bristly response. You don't have to love NoVA, most of us don't. But you need to be judicious in your criticism - we know we're an overbuilt suburb, so is most of the country. Don't attack one place for a widespread problem.
I'm not a NoVa native, but I've lived here longer than anywhere else, and I think your post pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Not all of us embraced 100% the pro-growth agenda of NoVa leaders in recent decades, but we accepted it and even found a way to recognize some of its benefits.
To have newcomers who've taken advantage of our receptivity to growth and new residents constantly compare the region unfavorably to their hometowns or some other more scenic/historic/walkable location that has but a mere fraction of the jobs we have in this area does seem, well, a bit churlish, as do the assumptions that everyone should agree that a particular style of suburban development is best. Having said that, I don't begrudge anyone the right to express their personal opinion, and often learn something new when people tout the attractions of other places they've lived.
My issue with all this negativism is definitely the generalizations. And your perspective....I came from suburban NYC metro area. There are some major differences, mostly related to the quality of food , but to me, the people are just people. I haven't met an overly materialistic one in the group in my almost 4 months here. I have met nothing but down to earth, real people. Granted, I live in Western Loudoun and it's different out here. But that's my point, you can't generalize an entire region by your experiences in your little microcosm of Reston/Tysons etc. ALSO, there are quite a few people on this board who are not "just starting out", in their 20s and making no money. So for them, perhaps they are not feeling your cost of living issues. It doesn't mean they're "lying" it means to them, they're happy with it. Heck I am in a much bigger house now for less money than I spent in CT...so to me, this is a low cost of living...not to mention my taxes are about 30% less than they were for a smaller house in CT. I happen to live right off of route 7 and my husband commutes to Herndon, takes him 35-45 mins each day. I think that is just a fine commute for a 30 mile drive. Yes we pay to use the Greenway but to us, that's part of the commuting expense.
So you see, not everyone has the same perspective as you, and the others of you that "hate" it here. It does feel insulting when you say that people are "not being honest" with those to who inquire about NoVA. I am being perfectly honestly when I say everything I just said. So, how dare you accuse me (or others) of sugar coating things? It's seems awfully self-centered to me to assume that EVERYONE has the same perspective as you do and therefore either agree with you or are just plain wrong.
PS on your comment about the infrastructure....talk to me about inferior infrastructure when you're living outside of NYC....now that's some inferior infrastructure. NoVa doesn't have the corner of the market on traffic, not by a long shot. I love the fact that there are in fact two ways for my husband to get to work, both direct. and the Greenway is absolutely a great option. Do I wish it was free or cheaper absolutely, but it allows me to live farther out where land is cheaper so I'll gladly pay to drive it if i can pay less for my house.
In closing please discuss below what "right", if any, those of us who don't think NoVA is "sunshine and puppies" have to post here. How can we phrase things differently to stop the personal attacks against us? There are a few people on this sub-forum I now strongly dislike for some snide and snarky remarks they've made against myself and other detractors from the region time after time. You don't see me thinking people are nuts for loving it here, so why think I'm a bad person because I don't see the benefits outweighing the drawbacks?
That's the problem, phrases like "everyone thinks NoVA is sunshine and puppies' - that's been used over and over - and really, most people here don't feel that way for sure. But, it's posted like it's a factual statement. Also, your posts have strongly implied you do "think people are nuts for loving it here" - so it's odd to see you now saying you don't. Finally, the pro-Nova folks don't have the monopoly on snarky remarks in this subforum, not by a long shot.
So you see, not everyone has the same perspective as you, and the others of you that "hate" it here. It does feel insulting when you say that people are "not being honest" with those to who inquire about NoVA. I am being perfectly honestly when I say everything I just said. So, how dare you accuse me (or others) of sugar coating things? It's seems awfully self-centered to me to assume that EVERYONE has the same perspective as you do and therefore either agree with you or are just plain wrong.
Yes, people express their opinions here. But somehow, it has been said many times, that people are not "honest" in doing so. Apparently if people say they like it here, they are not being "honest". That definitely is going to anger the person or persons who freely expressed their honest opinion. People are going to be angry too when they are accused of "sugar coating" things. They are expressing their viewpoint. How can an opinion "not be honest" anyway? It is NOT a fact, and nothing stated in this forum should be taken as facts, when a question is asked soliciting what obviously is an opinion, for an answer to that question - and that question cannot be answered with real "facts". An example of that kind of question is "Do you think Reston would be a good place to live?" or "Do you like the suburban lifestyle in Northern Virginia?" People are not ever stating "facts" when answering those questions and therefore they are opinions. People can't have "dishonest opinions" - that apparently redefines the definition of the word "opinion".
On the other hand, if questions were asked that could be answered factually - and they forum posters continually lied or distorted real provable facts, then that would be different. I haven't seen that happen here, and most questions asked here aren't seeking factual numeric or other kind of data - as that can easily be found elsewhere. Most people ARE soliciting people's opinions, and SHOULD know to take them with a grain of salt. You can ask the same question seeking an opinion to 50 people, and get 50 different answers, some that may be helpful and some that won't! This forum is no exception to that. If this forum is used as the sole basis to make critical life choices, well that's probably not good either, for that matter.
Finally, to summarize - an example of what people are objecting to is this: it seems if someone says they genuinely like living here, they aren't being honest and have an ulterior motive of boosting property values here .
It is hard to find people in this area that actually grew up in this area... we have been flooded with economic refugees from Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, California, and any other state with a down economy. Anybody is welcome to move to VA and give it a try, but let me tell you this - it is extremely annoying to have Michiganders or Californians or Ohioans constantly complaining about how Virginia is different from their home and how things were better in x.
I think you've raised a very good point here. There's such a constant influx of people and I think some of this is related to settlement issues -- getting used to a new place, new job, people, etc. It's easy to slam a new place -- just complain about everything and make it appear like 'back home' is idyllic. Some people know in a short time that they don't belong here; for others, it takes awhile to settle in.
And yes, it's one thing to vent and complain but highly annoying to have someone complain all of the time about everything (and that's on any topic not just NoVA).
There's nothing wrong with what anyone says about NoVA, pro or con. It's in how some of them they say it. Some people like to post their opinions in a way that is designed to provoke others. And despite their supposedly shocked protestations after the fact, they know exactly what they're doing while they're posting. So the problem, if there really is a problem, lies with the debaters, not the fact that there is debate.
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, but to me, the people are just people. I haven't met an overly materialistic one in the group in my almost 4 months here. I have met nothing but down to earth, real people. Granted, I live in Western Loudoun and it's different out here. But that's my point, you can't generalize an entire region by your experiences in your little microcosm of Reston/Tysons etc. ALSO, there are quite a few people on this board who are not "just starting out", in their 20s and making no money. So for them, perhaps they are not feeling your cost of living issues. It doesn't mean they're "lying" it means to them, they're happy with it. Heck I am in a much bigger house now for less money than I spent in CT...so to me, this is a low cost of living...not to mention my taxes are about 30% less than they were for a smaller house in CT. I happen to live right off of route 7 and my husband commutes to Herndon, takes him 35-45 mins each day. I think that is just a fine commute for a 30 mile drive. Yes we pay to use the Greenway but to us, that's part of the commuting expense.
