The Truth about California from a former west coast Girl... (San Francisco: calculation, to live in)

[FresnoFacts]

Originally Posted by Ludachris

It's all a matter of opinion I guess. Sacramento, Fresno, and Bakersfield aren't for everyone, but neither is Phoenix, Vegas, and Tuscon. The advantage being outside the CA metro areas (especially in NorCal) is that it's cheaper, a slower pace, and you can at least be within driving distance of the culture-rich metro areas. Having grown up in the Bay Area, I can understand the tendency to look down on the areas outside of the major metro areas though. It's common to see unfavorable attitudes towards places like Sacramento and Fresno. But up until a decade ago, you used to see the same unfavorable attitudes towards the places you mentioned as well until the real estate boom made them popular destinations.

And I think people do not realize the increase in cultural activities in inland California in the last decade. I'm not as up on Sacramento or Bakersfield, but new cultural groups founded in the last 10 years in Fresno include:

Opera (founded 1999)
http://www.fresnograndopera.org/galleries.html
Shakespeare (founded 2004)
Woodward Shakespeare Festival
The statewide Cal State University Summer Arts Festival (moved to Fresno 8 years ago)
CSU Summer Arts
An Indy Performance festival (founded 2001)
Rogue 2009
A second film festival (founded 2005)
Fresno Filmworks
An aquarium (which breaks ground for construction later this year)
Aquarius Aquarium Institute - A Public Aquarium for California's San Joaquin Valley

That is in addition to long existing groups like the Fresno Art Museum, Fresno Philharmonic, Fresno Met Museum, Artes Americas, Reel Pride, the Fresno Zoo, and others.

Are these cultural amenities world-class like those in LA or SF? Of course not, but they do provide ongoing cultural activities without the drive. And the growth represents a change in the region.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Do you mean to say that the fescue isn't more verdant on the other side of the barrier? How can that be?

That's an interesting way of saying the same thing... wonder if anyone's ever heard it said that way.

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

And I think people do not realize the increase in cultural activities in inland California in the last decade. I'm not as up on Sacramento or Bakersfield, but new cultural groups founded in the last 10 years in Fresno include:

Opera (founded 1999)
The Fresno Grand Opera presents world class opera in California that California opera patrons love. Opera in California is Fresno Grand Opera!
Shakespeare (founded 2004)
Woodward Shakespeare Festival
The statewide Cal State University Summer Arts Festival (moved to Fresno 8 years ago)
CSU Summer Arts
An Indy Performance festival (founded 2001)
Rogue 2009
A second film festival (founded 2005)
Fresno Filmworks
An aquarium (which breaks ground for construction later this year)
Aquarius Aquarium Institute - A Public Aquarium for California's San Joaquin Valley

That is in addition to long existing groups like the Fresno Art Museum, Fresno Philharmonic, Fresno Met Museum, Artes Americas, Reel Pride, the Fresno Zoo, and others.

Are these cultural amenities world-class like those in LA or SF? Of course not, but they do provide ongoing cultural activities without the drive. And the growth represents a change in the region.

It's nice to see that places like Fresno have progressed a bit and become something more than a truck stop (and distribution center) in the central valley to more folks these days. Hopefully the area can change the perception held by more of the metro CA residents who tend to automatically favor the inexpensive metro areas out of state.

I'll admit, I never considered living in Fresno or Bakersfield. It was only recently that I even started considering the thought that the Sacramento region could be inhabitable. That was likely due to the inferior view of those areas having been drilled into my subconscious growing up in the Bay Area. The attitude towards those areas were (and probably still are) typically not very favorable in the major metro areas of CA. They were commonly looked down upon and dismissed as podunk farm towns, no matter how big the town/city was. It's funny how you tend to see things a little differently when you get older and/or stop caring about keeping up with the Joneses - which is easy to do when living in the major CA metro areas.

Glad to have you posting stuff like this, educating us all on the growth of Fresno. It's great to see.

[cocoayin]

It's true that SoCal has some cool things to do (perhaps not as much culture as NoCal, but that's besides the point), but the quality of people is what I think most transplants have issue with. An earlier post stated something about coming to the L.A./O.C. area if your aim is to make business connections and build status. How true!
I've lived here 4 years and the most intelligent & funnest people I know are chiefly concerned with money, image, status and how their friends and accociates can contribute to those things. I'm originally from the east coast & have spent a good part of my life in the deep south and have never been immersed in such a dense populous of excuse me, narcissists, brats and know-it-all jerks. Unless you find a clique to join, you'll spend a large portion of your time alone here.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS....
There's no hoping to meet the love of your life, making best friends or having intellectual discussions over a bottle of wine late into the night here. There's shopping, spa-ing (a verb, meaning "to attend the spa"), doing anything you can to get ahead & trying your hand at entrepreneurship. There's also a lot of drinking to be done & sex to be had. If anywhere to watch your 20's fly by in a blur, it's SoCal.
And yes, there are a lot of weird people to meet; living here makes almost everyone an exaggeration of themselves: caricatures, wax figures, melodramatic actors. If you want to make it here you'll have to put on the mask of one of those 3 at least part of the time.

[KoaKine]

Originally Posted by cocoayin

It's true that SoCal has some cool things to do (perhaps not as much culture as NoCal, but that's besides the point), but the quality of people is what I think most transplants have issue with. An earlier post stated something about coming to the L.A./O.C. area if your aim is to make business connections and build status. How true!
I've lived here 4 years and the most intelligent & funnest people I know are chiefly concerned with money, image, status and how their friends and accociates can contribute to those things. I'm originally from the east coast & have spent a good part of my life in the deep south and have never been immersed in such a dense populous of excuse me, narcissists, brats and know-it-all jerks. Unless you find a clique to join, you'll spend a large portion of your time alone here.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS....
There's no hoping to meet the love of your life, making best friends or having intellectual discussions over a bottle of wine late into the night here. There's shopping, spa-ing (a verb, meaning "to attend the spa"), doing anything you can to get ahead & trying your hand at entrepreneurship. There's also a lot of drinking to be done & sex to be had. If anywhere to watch your 20's fly by in a blur, it's SoCal.
And yes, there are a lot of weird people to meet; living here makes almost everyone an exaggeration of themselves: caricatures, wax figures, melodramatic actors. If you want to make it here you'll have to put on the mask of one of those 3 at least part of the time.

For your first post very nice!
I agree with all accept one little thing . So.Cal has just as much culture as No. Cal. I lived in So. Cal. for 45 years and got sick of the plastic life of it all. I left 5 years ago and as of now I will not move back.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by cocoayin

the most intelligent & funnest people I know


There's no hoping to meet the love of your life, making best friends or having intellectual discussions over a bottle of wine late into the night here.

There's also a lot of drinking to be done & sex to be had.

If anywhere to watch your 20's fly by in a blur, it's SoCal.

Funnest?

I met the love of my life in LA. I'll mention the wine thing to the kids at Cal Tech.

Yes, drinking and sex. Drinking numbs the senses though. The 1970s were the best of times: after the pill and before AIDS.

I still remember the blur of my 20s

(image not protected by copyright)

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

I don't think smog will ever be an non-issue in the IE. Even if smog is reduced in other areas, it still comes together there and doesn't have anywhere to go. The only time you can't see the haze is the middle of winter, and when its bad in the summer you can't see the hills.

The thing with a new place is to visit when its at its worse, at least for you. For someone from socal, for Cushing it would be winter. The summer so far is about as miserable as Riverside but its not such a big difference. For Riverside hands down that is July/August. On a weekday.

Not sure if you misread me or not but I do have concern over the damage even if smog doesn't seem to outwardly bother people. It is still as damaging, especially to kids. I wouldn't bring children into the area. Adults should know what it does, but they have a choice.

Agree about the California is great, ignore these people talk. If you're used to smog, then maybe you don't notice. But leave and come back and you can't possibly miss it. I suppose if you come from one of the decaying places somewhere else socal might look pretty good but for someone who knew what it was its not the same place at all.

On your first point, I do think that eventually smog will be a non-issue in the IE. Just about all areas of the US have made great strides in cleaning up the air, and today's vehicles pollute a lot less than even 10 years ago, so progress seems almost certain to continue. However, truly decent air quality for the IE is probably 20 years away...and it will probably be 10 years before it's tolerable (at least by my standards). For people who don't like/can't tolerate smog, that is definitely too long to wait.

I agree with you it's a good idea to visit a place at the worst time of year to see if you can tolerate it.

And maybe I did misread you a little. It seemed like you were saying that if a person doesn't suffer any symptoms of breathing smog, then it probably isn't a big deal for them. I was just disagreeing with that, because it can still affect your health even if you suffer no outward symptoms. But maybe you weren't really saying that. Sorry I misunderstood.

Like you, I totally hate smog and it's definitely not something I'd want to get used to...which is why I live in the Bay Area. Our air is not exactly pristine, but it is better than most major metro areas, and like most areas, air quality here has been gradually improving over time.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by FresnoFacts

Actually no.

Central Valley real estate is now basically the same median price or lower than your examples.

I'd like to see some stats on that. Even so, I'd take Phoenix or Las Vegas or Tucson over Fresno or Bakersfield any day. Maybe not Sacramento, but definitely the other two.

[mrsltd]

Originally Posted by skyway31

I've never been to Fullerton. I've been to Orange and near Disney etc. Fullerton may not be scenic. Certainly, many of the "general" towns in north and east OC are indeed not scenic. But, those are just a handful of places. Like raelyn, you're looping the entire freaking state of California into your experience of a bland place like Fullerton. If you said that there are many run-of-the-mill, unscenic towns in OC, I'd agree. But there are many georgous, highly scenic places in OC too. And, the state of California?? No other state has as much scenery as California. It's size and vast range of scenery is unsurpassed by any other state.

Skyway:

Sounds like you need a tour of Fullerton, especially since you call it bland while admitting that you have never been there. And there are other areas in north OC that are good for views and such as well.

mrsltd

[Ludachris]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I'd like to see some stats on that. Even so, I'd take Phoenix or Las Vegas or Tucson over Fresno or Bakersfield any day. Maybe not Sacramento, but definitely the other two.

Couldn't find much, but didn't spend much time...

Here's what I found for Phoenix, Tucson, Vegas, and Sacramento - Fresno and Bakersfield aren't on the list:
http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/882586804e108aadb922ffec21680fb0/REL09Q1T.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=882586804e108aadb 922ffec21680fb0 (broken link)

Looks like $190k for Phoenix, $205 for Tucson, $220 for Vegas, and $215k for Sacramento. But from what I read, this report only touches on single family homes.

And if you like Yahoo's data:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Bakersfield
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Fresno
http://realestate.yahoo.com/California/Sacramento
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Nevada/Las_Vegas
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Arizona/Tucson
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Arizona/Phoenix

$165k for Bakersfield
$195 for Vegas
$200k for Phoenix
$210k for Fresno and Sacramento
$220 for Tucson

Pretty comparable, with Bakersfield being the least expensive by far. The CA cities don't appear to be more expensive like you originally thought. Having lived in the Bay Area, I probably would have agreed with you about still choosing Phoenix/Tucson/Vegas over Fresno/Bakersfield, if nothing else just because of the Bay Area perception of those places. But I haven't been to those areas in over two decades now. So I can't say I'd easily dismiss them in favor of Arizona and Nevada. I haven't seen enough of Arizona, but Vegas isn't my cup of tea. I'd have to visit all of those areas in order to give them a fair shake. The Sacramento region is still at the top of our list, mostly due to its proximity to the Bay Area (family), the coast, wine country, and even Tahoe.