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People do all kinds of things that are not necessary or important.
Something can be important and not necessary. I find it important that my kids not be ill mannered little jerks. But to .. say.. their survival, it is not necessary. But I value it. Consider it important. For example.
This is what I don't get. Why is celebrating the reasons for MY choice taken as putting down someone elses choice???? I'm sure SAHM's have their reasons for their choice. I have mine.
And I'm very happy in my choice. I get into debates like this one because there are WM's who are attacked by the SAH mantra crowd who may not realize all the benefits of the choice they've made, or more often the choice they never got because they had to work for a living. As a mom who chose to work, I did my homework. I know my choice is a good one but there are women who, by circumstance, don't get a choice in the matter who have to work. I post for them. I know all the reasons my choice is good. I see them in my dd's faces. What I don't get is why some SAHM's can't let WM's be happy with the benefits of their choice. What's it to them that I chose to model something different than they did? It makes me wonder if their reasons for their choice pale when stood next to mine.
There is nothing wrong with celebrating your choice, what I took issue with was your implication that SAHM's are not equal to their husbands. I certainly don't see myself as beneath my DH and he doesn't see me that way either. I know there are benefits to working out of the home and for the record, I never bashed working moms. We all make choices based on our own situation, one choice is no more or less valid than another.
Four percent with a few hundred is not going to be statistically significant but with a large enough sample size it can be statistically significant.
Again I think eventually it will level out.
Anyway, something not directed at this poster but everyone who is discounting science in general. As a scientist I have had many classes and routinely use statistics in my own research. As a teacher I have had to teach how to interpret statistics. Once you understand how statistics works it is not hard at all to tell when stats have been tweaked to give a certain outcome. While those skewed stats are frequently found in the media, it is rare indeed (again not an absolute here) to have something get through the peer review process and get published in a scientific journal. That is why I posted links to actual studies and limited my sources to those that are freely available. Still people are completely discounting them for conflicting reasons. It boggles my mind. No wonder we are a declining scientific power.
People see what they want to see. When confronted with something they don't like, they try to discredit the source, like the poster who tried to tell me a 2007 study wasn't recent enough to be of value. I find I'm lucky if I can find studies that are less than 7 years old when I research. A mere 4 year old study is brand new!!
For some reason, people here are looking for THIER choice to be justified. I want to SAH so therefore, SAH must be better??? It's as if what they really want is a pat on the back for SAH when none is warranted. SAH/WOH don't really matter in the big picture. It's a choice. Plain and simple. You do what you want.
I did not want to give up my career and had no idea how I'd fill the time if I stayed home. I thought about the choice in front of me and asked what difference it would make. I looked at the research. I thought about how I veiw my own working mom. I thought about what my children's lives would be like if they were home with a bored mom. I checked out some moms goups and found I had nothing in common with these women (they were all very needy...most seemed to stay home because they had a need to be taken care of or because they just didn't like working but they wanted a medal for martyrdom...). I decided this was not the life I wanted for my kids and went shopping for a good day care center. I've never met so many unhappy moms in my life. I'm not sure what they thought they were signing up for but they, obviously, didn't get what they thought they were going to get.
Dd#1 turned out to be one of those kids who wouldn't sleep at day care and I really felt I didn't see her enough because of it so I went part time when dd#2 was born (she was a kid who just didn't sleep, PERIOD so I saw lots of her). For the next three years, I was BORED. I really don't think I did my kids much good that way. I think life improved a lot when I went back to work full time. Life is fuller and richer now. Family time is precious. When I was home, we had too much time together. I never want to be that mom again. I don't ever want to be to the point that I actually need to get away from my kids for half an hour again.
Working for a living provides nice balance. I have my own accomlishments so I don't use my kid's to stroke my ego. I'm not cooped up at home too much. There's plenty of time for family and friends and taking care of the house. And, I have a healthy 401K (well it was healthy...eeek). I feel like I have my ducks in a row. I'm teaching my kids to work hard and save for the future. To take care of themselves instead of having someone else take care of them. I'm showing them how to balance work and family. I do wonder how much they'll take to heart but time will tell. So far they have lofty goals. I'll be one proud mamma if they reach them. The only problem we're having is that they both have decided that they want me to retire when they have kids so I can take care of their kids while they work. I must have done something right!!
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-26-2011 at 07:49 PM..
For some reason, people here are looking for THIER choice to be justified. I want to SAH so therefore, SAH must be better??? It's as if what they really want is a pat on the back for SAH when none is warranted. SAH/WOH don't really matter in the big picture. It's a choice. Plain and simple. You do what you want.
Nobody here has said one word about staying at home being better. Nobody. But the rest of your post, which I can't be bothered to quote, is going on yet again about how SAHM's are inferior to working moms. The only person making comparisons is you.
Because a picture is worth a thousand words. We don't just tell our dd's about the careers they could have, we show them the ones we have. We don't tell them they can balance family and career, we show them how to do it. We don't tell them men and women are equal and then take on traditional gender roles. We demonstrate living more equal roles. But for all we do, all we're doing is stacking the statistical deck. We can still end up with dd's who don't go to college because they just want to be mommies and stay home just as SAHM's can end up with dd's who are doctors, lawyers and engineers. They'll just have to figure out the juggling act on their own because their mothers didn't show them how to do it but I'm sure they'll figure it out. Women are pretty resilient.
We're not talking earth shattering differences here that would push to have all women in the work force by any means and no one claimed that. We're talking statistical averages. And, frankly, they make sense. This shouldn't come as a surprise, all things considered.
I do have to point out that WM's are involved in school too. You don't have to stay home to be involved in your children's school. In fact, at my dds' elementary school there were more WM volunteers than SAHM volunteers. Working moms are one up in that they already have day care in place for younger siblings so volunteering just requires taking an afternoon vacation from work. Many of the SAHMs had to find a sitter to volunteer. WM's do the same things SAHM's do. As a WM, I read nap time stories at my dd's day care every day, worked the computer lab at the elementary school, at least, once a week (I was the only one who could get the printers to work), I took my dd's to dance lessons, gynmastics and ice skating, I gave presentations on my career,I've chaperoned field trips, worked the lunch room, etc, etc, etc....working really doesn't stop you from doing these things. In fact, given day care is already in place for siblings, it can actually make it easier.
You have chosen to model what you have chosen to model. I'm really scratcing my head as to why that bothers you given I chose to model something else. My choice is mine and yours is yours. We are both modeling what we value and our kids know it. How much they take that message to heart will vary with each indivdual.
You know, so many people claim to never watch daytime TV that I have to wonder what the TV execs are thinking even broadcasting during the day. You'd think they'd be smarter than to keep on broadcasting in spite of no one watching.
It doesn't bother me that you chose to work. It only bothers me that you seem to think that by doing so, your daughters will necessarily follow your lead.
What is the father's role in this? Why can't his example serve the same purpose? Is it because you don't think fathers should share the burden for keeping the household running?
And, would you feel differently if you were raising sons instead of daughters?
I don't know a single person who watches daytime tv, except for my 85 year old mother.
There is nothing wrong with celebrating your choice, what I took issue with was your implication that SAHM's are not equal to their husbands. I certainly don't see myself as beneath my DH and he doesn't see me that way either. I know there are benefits to working out of the home and for the record, I never bashed working moms. We all make choices based on our own situation, one choice is no more or less valid than another.
The research doesn't say they're not equal. It says the children of SAHM's don't see them as equal. There's a difference. That shouldn't come as a surprise when you're modeling traditional gender roles.
It doesn't bother me that you chose to work. It only bothers me that you seem to think that by doing so, your daughters will necessarily follow your lead.
What is the father's role in this? Why can't his example serve the same purpose? Is it because you don't think fathers should share the burden for keeping the household running?
And, would you feel differently if you were raising sons instead of daughters?
I don't know a single person who watches daytime tv, except for my 85 year old mother.
Not what I said at all. I said there are tendencies. I've never said it's guaranteed. Our daughters just have a tendency to follow in our footsteps. I'll be proud if mine do.
Because the father isn't female. Girls look to their mothers as their role model. Fathers play a role but it's not that of role model for daughters. Fathers are their son's role model. Kids are aware of gender differences. Especially in situations that exaggerate them.
Yes, these TV execs are just idiots broadcasting shows no one is watching during the day. You'd think they'd figure out what a waste of money and resources that is...
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I find I'm lucky if I can find studies that are less than 7 years old when I research. A mere 4 year old study is brand new!!
). I decided this was not the life I wanted for my kids and went shopping for a good day care center. I've never met so many unhappy moms in my life. I'm not sure what they thought they were signing up for but they, obviously, didn't get what they thought they were going to get.
