In Philadelphia, can you feel a difference between someone from a NJ suburb vs one from a PA suburb? (Franklin: neighborhood, to live in)

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Stolberg

"The Philadelphia Story" vs. "Jersey Shore".
From the '50s until at least the '80s there was a prejudice that the NJ suburbs were less "classy".
'Cherry Hill' (a NJ suburb) was synonymous with gauche bad taste. The rural Jersyites, the "Pineys"
were like Appalachia, but without the romance. Places like Princeton were excluded.
I'm not endorsing this prejudice, just mentioning it.
They really are bad drivers though. (That's a joke.)

This stereotype was true (at least to some) even later than the 80's. When talking about another coworker a co-worker of mine in 1999 said that South Jersey was all "trailer parks and big hair." Some people for whatever reason think that South Jersey is all Pineys. Of course many out-of-towners think PA is all Amish which is also a ridiculous concept.

[mancat100]

Don't forget that the PA burbs include the Main Line, Wyeth Country in Chester County and even PA Dutch areas in Western Montgomery County. A very staid heritage indeed. Compare this to the South Philly Snookie-burbs in NJ and the backwoodsy Pineys. Historically, there was a huge difference that can still be seen to some degree.

Again, I'm generalizing greatly and readily admit that. I acknowledge that Haddonfield exists in NJ and that places like Norristown, Chester and Darby exist in PA.

[Stolberg]

Elite/snooty colleges in Philadelphia's PA suburbs: Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Swathmore. In south Jersey...none.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by mancat100

Don't forget that the PA burbs include the Main Line, Wyeth Country in Chester County and even PA Dutch areas in Western Montgomery County. A very staid heritage indeed. Compare this to the South Philly Snookie-burbs in NJ and the backwoodsy Pineys. Historically, there was a huge difference that can still be seen to some degree.

Again, I'm generalizing greatly and readily admit that. I acknowledge that Haddonfield exists in NJ and that places like Norristown, Chester and Darby exist in PA.

There's plenty of equivalent "Snookie burbs" in Delaware County; the Inner Ring, and even many parts of Springfield, Broomall, and Havertown, retain that strong sense of Irish/Italian white ethnic pride. "Wyeth Country" is not all that different from the affluent, less sparsely populated portions of Burlington County like Medford. Outer Bucks, Chester, and MontCo feature a lot of farmland and are pretty damn backwoodsy themselves. The Main Line was all but "ruined" from the 1950s onward when us Jews came in droves.

[mancat100]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

There's plenty of equivalent "Snookie burbs" in Delaware County; the Inner Ring, and even many parts of Springfield, Broomall, and Havertown, retain that strong sense of Irish/Italian white ethnic pride. "Wyeth Country" is not all that different from the affluent, less sparsely populated portions of Burlington County like Medford. Outer Bucks, Chester, and MontCo feature a lot of farmland and are pretty damn backwoodsy themselves. The Main Line was all but "ruined" from the 1950s onward when us Jews came in droves.

The Jewish parts of the Main Line are the best parts, IMO.

[LHM]

Originally Posted by mancat100

This is a HUGE generalization, but I think it's true: The PA burbs, in aggregate, are somewhat more upscale than the NJ burbs. Also, NJ seems to be somewhat more Italian-American than PA. The PA burbs are more Leave it to Beaver. The NJ burbs are more All in the Family/Jersey Shore.

Where do you get this nonsense from? These are just more BS generalizations.

[mancat100]

Originally Posted by LHM

Where do you get this nonsense from? These are just more BS generalizations.

I admitted in the first sentence that it was indeed a huge generalization.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by mancat100

The Jewish parts of the Main Line are the best parts, IMO.

I'm a Penn Wynne-born, Penn Valley-bred Yid, so I naturally agree with you. The whole "Jews ruined the Main Line" business is more a satirical/reminiscent take on the reactions some of the area's longer-established residents had when we first moved in.

By virtue of demographic changes in the Main Line that began at the same time South Jersey underwent rapid development, much of that patrician vibe you speak of has become a distant memory. Of course, a not-insignificant (though very often overstated) number of Main Line Jews have seen fit to mimic their old money antecedents, and by that same token, a not-insignificant (and also very often overstated) of wealthier Cherry Hill/Voorhees Jews fit the nouveau riche stereotype. But that's not really a PA/Jersey divide, as the negative stereotype exhibited by some residents of Blue Bell, Huntingdon Valley, Fort Washington, etc. is also of the nouveau riche variety. Rather, it's the difference between moving into an established community as an "outsider" and having to "mind your neighbors," and being a small part of a large pioneer wave into a previously undeveloped community.

I have family/friends all over the Philadelphia area, and excepting certain characters who enjoy putting on airs, adjusted for socioeconomics, I just don't think behavior/mindset really changes much from place to place.

[soug]

One thing I've noticed is people from the PA burbs just say they are from Philly while people from the NJ burbs (most of the time) say South Jersey. I actually prefer the second, because it allows for a subidentity within the overall region.

When radio stations, advertisements, etc say "Philly Jersey Delaware" are you supposed to assume that the PA burbs fall under "Philly" or does this phrase unwittingly exclude the PA burbs altogether. I personally think it's clear that it's the first, but it's interesting to think about.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by soug

One thing I've noticed is people from the PA burbs just say they are from Philly while people from the NJ burbs (most of the time) say South Jersey. I actually prefer the second, because it allows for a subidentity within the overall region.

When radio stations, advertisements, etc say "Philly Jersey Delaware" are you supposed to assume that the PA burbs fall under "Philly" or does this phrase unwittingly exclude the PA burbs altogether. I personally think it's clear that it's the first, but it's interesting to think about.

It's important for you to know, if you don't know already, that other countries do not have suburbs. Well essentially...

They aren't "suburbs" the way Americans think of "suburbs"

Suburbs in other countries are essentially fringe areas of the city much like the Far Northeast and Northwest parts of Philadelphia. In other countries however, the poor live in these fringe neighborhoods while the wealthy and middle class live in the actual city.

I find it very interesting that it is the complete opposite in the majority of American cities.

With that said, I think most american's and immigrants alike tend to think that the suburbs are essentially a part of the city, rather then separate entities. That would automatically include the PA suburbs of Philly when talking about Philly. Now, because Philly has suburbs in NJ, DE and Maryland, it is simpler to think of those suburbs as separate entities. Since a city cannot sit in multiple states, there is a very distinct border between the two (especially the Delaware River between Philly and NJ). This makes it easier to specifically identify with where you are from.

What is the border between Philadelphia and the PA side of the suburbs? There really is none besides what the census designates as "the city limits" and the "border of Bucks, Montco, etc."

See the difference?